Teacher Numbers

First Minister’s Question Time – in the Scottish Parliament am ar 9 Mai 2024.

Danfonwch hysbysiad imi am ddadleuon fel hyn

Photo of Douglas Ross Douglas Ross Ceidwadwyr

Yesterday, parents in Glasgow were protesting against cuts to teacher numbers. They said that they are fighting for their kids’ education, because those cuts will, in their words, make it

“impossible for schools to support pupils properly.”

In Glasgow, more than 100 teachers have already gone, and it is proposed that that number will rise to 450. Across Scotland, teacher numbers have declined for two years.

A new Scottish Government report that was published this week suggests that the Scottish National Party might abandon its manifesto pledge to increase teacher numbers by 3,500. The First Minister made that promise when he was education secretary. Will he be honest with pupils, parents and teachers today? Will he stick to his promise to increase teacher numbers by 3,500 in this parliamentary session?

Photo of John Swinney John Swinney Scottish National Party

The Government’s commitments in relation to teacher numbers have been given in good faith to strengthen the provision of education in Scotland. I want the Government to work with our local authority partners to deliver on those commitments.

The approach that we take is, of course, hugely dependent on the resources that we have available. The Government has taken steps to expand those resources: for example, if it had not taken the tax decisions that it has taken, we would be more than £1 billion worse off in relation to the funding that we have available.

I have to directly answer Mr Ross’s question about the challenges that we face in the public finances due to the pressures of inflation and the persistence of austerity that is framing public expenditure from the United Kingdom Government. I assure Mr Ross and parents, most importantly in the city of Glasgow but around the country, of the Government’s commitment to sustained investment in education and the maximisation of the investment that we can make available.

Photo of Douglas Ross Douglas Ross Ceidwadwyr

Of course, that was not my question. The question was very specific, on a specific pledge that was made not by any other SNP MSP but by the First Minister. He was the education secretary who went to the country and told people, “Vote for the SNP. Trust me, and we will increase teacher numbers by 3,500 in this parliamentary session.”

If I am not convinced by that answer from John Swinney, I do not think that any parent, pupil or teacher will be. We were supposed to have a different style of politics, but it sounds like the excuses are the same as those that we have had previously.

Sadly, John Swinney’s record in education is one of broken promises: he introduced a flagship education bill that could have improved standards but then abandoned it; he promised a free laptop to every child, but that never happened; the SNP said three years ago that Education Scotland would be reformed, but nothing happened; the Government in which John Swinney served promised that the Scottish Qualifications Authority would be replaced, but it is still here.

On teacher numbers, can he just give a straight yes or no answer? Will he stick to his pledge to increase teacher numbers across Scotland by 3,500 in this parliamentary session, or will it be more of the same broken promises from John Swinney and the SNP?

Photo of John Swinney John Swinney Scottish National Party

On the question of education delivery, let me put on the record a few things that the Government has achieved. When we came into office in 2007, 63 per cent of children and young people were being educated in good or satisfactory buildings. That figure today is 93 per cent. There has been a transformation of the education estate in Scotland. We have allocated £145 million to support the recruitment of teachers, in partnership with local government. Those are some of the things that we have delivered. The reform programme in Education Scotland and the SQA is being implemented.

Obviously, I have just come back into office, and I will be looking very carefully at the progress that has been made in that respect. I have not been on the front bench for 12 months or so, and I will be getting much closer to all of that.

On the question of the commitment to 3,500 teachers, I will be absolutely clear with people in Scotland today. We face very significant financial pressures in our public finances. The perspective on the public finances has deteriorated because of the effect of austerity, the cuts that have been made in public expenditure and the very significant inflation that we have had to wrestle with—which has resulted, for example, in teachers in Scotland becoming the best paid in the United Kingdom as a consequence of our decisions.

The Government will take forward its programme within the resources that are available to us, but I have to make it clear to people—to be straight with the public, which I will be—that public finances are under enormous pressure. We will set out our commitments as we take our budget decisions.

Photo of Douglas Ross Douglas Ross Ceidwadwyr

I would quite like John Swinney to be clear and straight with the Parliament and just answer a question. I will ask it for a third time, and I hope to get a response. As education secretary, he made a pledge to voters across Scotland that, if they voted for him and the SNP, they would increase teacher numbers across Scotland by 3,500 over the course of this parliamentary session. Is that going to happen—yes or no? A clear and straight answer from John Swinney is what is needed.

John Swinney has been education secretary in a previous Government. From 2016 to 2021, he was education secretary of Scotland. During that time, education was supposed to be the SNP’s top priority—it wanted to be judged on education. When he was in charge, however, Scotland’s schools and the results therein fell to record lows in the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development’s programme for international student assessment rankings. Those measured performance in maths, reading and science. In all three, Scotland’s scores declined substantially when John Swinney was education secretary. Why did Scotland plummet down international school league tables on his watch?

I ask this for the third time, hoping that I will get an answer. Will he tell the people of Scotland whether he is going to keep his promise to increase teacher numbers by 3,500?

Photo of John Swinney John Swinney Scottish National Party

I have nothing really to add to what I have said to Douglas Ross about the financial position that we face. The financial position is acutely challenging and difficult, and it is different from the position that we faced in 2021 and back in 2016. There has been a rampant increase in inflation on the watch of the Conservative Government. [ Interruption .]

Photo of John Swinney John Swinney Scottish National Party

If inflation rises—and this is elementary—

Photo of John Swinney John Swinney Scottish National Party

This is elementary arithmetic, Mr Hoy, and we are going to have to go through some elementary arithmetic to help you out here with understanding the answer.

If inflation rises by 10 per cent, the value of the money available to spend reduces. I want to ensure that we have a well-supported and substantial teaching profession, but I have to live in the real world of the public finances available to me—never mind the fact that the Conservatives opposed every single tax change that we have made to boost the public expenditure that is available in Scotland. The Government will take these decisions in the proper course of its budgetary process.

When I was education secretary, teacher numbers rose. They rose during my term in office as education secretary. One of the things that I am most pleased about—I cannot claim all the credit for this because my successors have delivered it since 2021—is that record positive destinations are being achieved by young people in Scotland, and that is a tribute to the strength of the education system.

Photo of Douglas Ross Douglas Ross Ceidwadwyr

John Swinney wants to give credit to his successors as education secretary. We have 250 fewer teachers in Scotland in just the past two years. He is not being straight with the public about whether he agrees with his own promise to increase teacher numbers by 3,500 in this parliamentary session, but we know already that those are going down—teacher numbers across Scotland are falling under an SNP Government.

John Swinney is reaching out across the parties to seek consensus and work together. I am sorry, but some of that has to come from him. He has to be honest. He has to give a straight answer. I will ask for the fourth time. Will he, as First Minister, commit to the promise that he made to the people of Scotland to increase teacher numbers by 3,500? It is not difficult to say yes or no. He can explain why it is no, but he must tell people, be honest and say that he is not going to do it.

As education secretary, John Swinney went from one failure to another. His implementation of the SNP’s curriculum for excellence was a mess. He is smiling at that—but I say to him that it was a mess. He was at the centre of multiple SQA fiascos, which, again, is not something to laugh about. He broke promises about improving the exam system. He was supposed to close the attainment gap entirely, but he failed. He damaged Scotland’s international reputation for education.

For 16 years, John Swinney has been at the heart of a Government that has let down pupils, parents and teachers. Now that he is the head of that Government, what is going to change?

Photo of John Swinney John Swinney Scottish National Party

Certainly, what will not change is the script that we get from Douglas Ross.

Let us talk about some of the achievements that have been made in education according to the most recent data. Record levels of literacy and numeracy attainment at primary school, and improvements at secondary school, were recorded in the curriculum for excellence data that was published on 12 December. There is a record low attainment gap between the proportion of primary pupils from the most and least deprived areas achieving the expected levels in literacy, and there were reductions at secondary level. Again, that is from the achievement of curriculum for excellence levels data from 12 December.

In the summer of 2023, we had the highest-ever number of passes at national 5—a tremendous achievement by the children and young people of Scotland—and a record number of vocational and technical qualifications were achieved. In 2023, higher and advanced higher pass rates were higher than those achieved in 2019.

I will be straight with the public of Scotland. I will tell them the way it is. I will be clear that we are under enormous financial pressure. My Government will have to come to the Parliament with information about the challenges that we face in the public finances, and we will do that in due course. I have been the First Minister for only 48 hours—not even 48 hours—but we will come to the Parliament to be straight about the challenges that we face. I will also be straight with the people of Scotland about the successes that this Government has delivered and of which we are very proud.