Hon. Anthony Berry: Is my right hon. Friend aware that he is correct in saying that Londoners warmly welcome his pledge that the GLC will still be abolished, despite what happened last night? Is not the Opposition wish to have these elections to cover a small period—perhaps only a month or two—yet another example of the way in which they are prepared to waste ratepayers' money?
Hon. Anthony Berry: How many attacks on post office staff have occurred in recent years, and how many of those attacks have involved the use of weapons, especially firearms?
Hon. Anthony Berry: When I moved the motion, I said that there is money available for all those schemes, if those responsible in the GLC are prepared to spend money on them. The money is there. Why do they not spend it on the schemes?
Hon. Anthony Berry: The hon. Gentleman said a moment ago that those would be the schemes. That is a different argument.
Hon. Anthony Berry: Will the hon. Gentleman remind the House just how many peers, who were once leaders of the GLC, voted with the Labour party last night in the other place?
Hon. Anthony Berry: I would never use the phrase "stooge Back Bencher" about any colleague in the House. I have been a Member of the House for 19 years, and I object strongly to that phrase. I ask the hon. Gentleman, as a decent honourable Member with whom I have had relations for many years, to withdraw that charge.
Hon. Anthony Berry: I was most anxious to establish my position following the question which I was asked as to whether I was speaking for the Government or as a Back Bencher. I hope that I have made it clear that I was speaking as a Back Bencher. I am sure that the Government will come to the right decision when the occasion arises.
Hon. Anthony Berry: It has for many years been a custom of the House to table a blocking motion on GLC Bills. It has been done by both parties, regardless of which has been in Government or in control at county hall. All parties have welcomed such a motion as an opportunity to discuss London matters and to exchange views. The usual channels have also welcomed it, as it relieves pressure for London debates in...
Hon. Anthony Berry: Of course he has; I wonder why. So far as I know, no requests have been made by the GLC under its present control to change that system. So we come to this year's Bill. It will not, of course, be the last such Bill, but I accept that we are considering it under rather unusual circumstances. Therefore, it is right that we should inspect it in a special way and consider what is in it. That is...
Hon. Anthony Berry: I should like to finish my sentence. I should not like the hon. Gentleman to miss the thrust of what I am saying, because no doubt it is something with which he will wish to agree. At a moment when the Government are doing so much for the citizens of London in making local democracy really local, it would be wrong for the powers of the money Bill to be totally withheld.
Hon. Anthony Berry: I think that I can answer the hon. Gentleman. Perhaps I shall be criticised by him for referring to the account from which the money being spent by the GLC on propaganda is coming. I am in no doubt that that is the main reason for the swing in public opinion, as expressed by the polls, but I have always taken the view that the ballot box is what matters, just as it did this time last year....
Hon. Anthony Berry: We are not changing the rules.
Hon. Anthony Berry: I am sure my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State could have brought in a Bill to change the rules. We have not done so. We fight on the facts of the argument and we are prepared to go on doing so. My next note was in regard to the hon. Member for Newham, North-West (Mr. Banks), but we have got to him already. The hon. Gentleman accepted a figure of £1·5 million across the Floor of the...
Hon. Anthony Berry: Of course the hon. Gentleman is right. We can challenge it. I am not suggesting that it is against the law. It was the hon. Gentleman who asked me why I thought that the opinion polls were showing support for keeping the GLC. I say that it is because of the mass expenditure, from whatever account, of ratepayers' money in this respect. Therefore, I think that it is relevant.
Hon. Anthony Berry: Yes. My hon. Friend has great knowledge of these problems. I am most grateful to him and I hope that Opposition Members will heed what he has said. I believe that Opposition Members are also concerned about the timing of the exchanges on the Bill. I should like to put this on the record to defuse in advance any points that they may make. The GLC finance and general purposes committee...
Hon. Anthony Berry: I appreciate the compliment the hon. Gentleman has paid me. I think he knows the answer. It was kind of him to draw attention to my position in the House, which is not that of a member of the Government. The GLC's refusal to allow the Department to see the proposals in advance is typical of its attitude and in keeping with its refusal to allow officials from the Department of the Environment...
Hon. Anthony Berry: My hon. Friend the Member for Westminster, North (Mr. Wheeler) is with a Select Committee in Hong Kong, with two hon. Members from the Opposition side. He is carrying out a parliamentary duty.
Hon. Anthony Berry: Will my right hon. Friend remind the House, on the day when Her Majesty the Queen opens the Thames barrier, that a Conservative GLC under Lord Plummer gave the go-ahead for the scheme? Secondly, will my right hon. Friend remind the House that more than three quarters of the finance has come from the Government, which makes nonsense of the claim that if there were no GLC there would be no...
Hon. Anthony Berry: The point that I was trying to make was that the coupon that we have received showing that Londoners are keen to exercise their rights in GLC elections is nonsense, since most people do not use their democratic rights.
Hon. Anthony Berry: It is an old custom of the House, and a nice one, to congratulate the hon. Member who comes first in the ballot. It has never happened to me, and I congratulate the hon. Member for Newham, North-West (Mr. Banks) and thank him for initiating a London debate. We all enjoy London debates. London Members enjoy them, and non-London Members enjoy them for other reasons. When the Greater London...
