Mr Stanley Crowther: I entirely understand the point that the Secretary of State has made. I am aware that the employment training scheme has taken over from the community programme. However, at least the community programme did not pretend to be a training scheme. I cannot see that the activities that I have described have anything to do with training. The employment training scheme is a form of cheap labour to...
Mr Stanley Crowther: On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. You will recall that no one appeared anxious to make a contribution until I got on my feet. If the Minister had been present, he could have moved the Third Reading.
Mr Stanley Crowther: No one in the steel industry, whether employed directly by the BSC or working for a firm in which it has a substantial shareholding, can view the future with anything but great trepidation. Throughout the debates on this Bill, my hon. Friends have tried to introduce changes which would have improved the security of the industry and its work force in various ways. We welcome the minor...
Mr Stanley Crowther: I had no intention of intervening, but as the Minister is not prepared to give way, I must put this important point quickly. As far as I know, the Chancellor of the Duchy has no objection to institutional ownership of shares. I do not think that he will say that he objects to pension funds and insurance companies buying shares in the BSC. If that is the case, why cannot he be consistent...
Mr Stanley Crowther: I am astonished that the Minister can say that the steel industry, of all industries, has no strategic importance. Can he tell us any type of weapon that does not have steel in it?
Mr Stanley Crowther: We are all probably aware that the Government have issued a press statement today, setting out what they will write into the articles of association. I think it would have been more courteous if they had let hon. Members know at the same time as they informed the press.
Mr Stanley Crowther: Is the Chancellor of the Duchy saying that the answer is in Hansard today?
Mr Stanley Crowther: I do not think that that is satisfactory. Most hon. Members will not have had the opportunity of seeing the written answer until later. A representative of the press told me what is in the answer. As I understand it, in the first place it is intended that the Government retain a golden share in British Steel. Perhaps the Chancellor of the Duchy will tell me if I am wrong, but they are...
Mr Stanley Crowther: I see that the Chancellor of the Duchy shakes his head. That is what fills me with dismay. I thought that there was to be no limitation. However, I understood that the Government may have been agreeable to writing that limitation in. If they are not prepared to write it into the articles of association, that makes the matter worse. However, even if they had done that, I would not have found...
Mr Stanley Crowther: I am happy to have that assurance. However, what worries me is that the Germans may well regard their allegations—false though they may be—as a good excuse for increasing the German Government's existing subsidies which assist their industry. I admit that those subsidies are indirect, but they are nevertheless substantial. Because of the continuing excess capacity outside Britain, which...
Mr Stanley Crowther: No doubt my hon. Friend will recall the Benson report, which drew attention to the fact that the industry was being starved of capital, which led directly to its being taken into public ownership. No doubt my hon. Friend agrees that if that had not happened there would not be a steel industry today.
Mr Stanley Crowther: Will the hon. Member accept that I largely agree with what he is saying about political decisions having kept Ravenscraig open? However, what he has not mentioned is that, for the past five years, Robert Scholey has been wanting to close it. Does the hon. Member expect Sir Robert to keep it open when he will no longer be subject to the scrutiny of a Minister in the Scottish Office and he...
Mr Stanley Crowther: Are those figures based on an assumption that regional policy will continue to be a failure, as it always has been? I do not especially blame this Government. Further, will the over-concentration of employment in and near London continue? If we had a successful regional policy, shifting the balance in favour of the more northerly parts of Britain, those figures would have to be re-examined.
Mr Stanley Crowther: What steps does the Minister take to penalise contractors who close lanes for unnecessarily long periods? Does he appreciate the frustration caused to drivers—as well as the losses to companies—when cars, buses and lorries are held up by the thousand for an hour or more by the closure of a lane in which there is no sign of any work taking place?
Mr Stanley Crowther: In the first place, I do not believe that that is a point of order. In the second place, I do not believe that the hon. Member for Walsall, North (Mr. Winnick) needs my protection, as he is perfectly capable of defending himself. In the third place, I do not think that there was anything unparliamentary in what was said.
Mr Stanley Crowther: Order. I am not attacking the hon. Gentleman. He must address his remarks to the Chair and the use of the word "you" gives rise to certain misunderstandings.
Mr Stanley Crowther: The hon. Member knows that that is not a point of order.
Mr Stanley Crowther: Bearing in mind that the present level of profitability in BSC is only just a little above what Sir Robert Scholey says he needs every year for reinvestment, is it not obvious that the Government are rushing BSC into the private sector because Ministers want to get it off their hands before it is hit by the full impact of electricity price increases, which will reduce its competitiveness, and...
Mr Stanley Crowther: I was not surprised to hear the hon. Member for Clwyd, North-West (Sir A. Meyer) say that he supports the Bill, because I remember that many years ago he urged denationalisation of the steel industry. I shudder to think what state the steel industry would be in today if his advice had been accepted. We are debating a piece of pure dogma. It is the 11th commandment of the old Tory...
Mr Stanley Crowther: My hon. Friend is quite right. The engineering industry in south Yorkshire has expressed serious concern about that. It is an important defence issue. Our steel industry has been saved at considerable financial cost and even greater social cost in the areas where the jobs have disappeared. My constituents and I wish to know whether all the sacrifices have been made only to provide someone...
