John Hayes: Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
John Hayes: I was inspired to re-enter the Chamber by the length and honesty of the hon. Gentleman's speech. I must press him on how robust he is prepared to be. He spoke about a more robust approach and has given illustrations. His Cornish fishermen and mine in Lincolnshire will want to know how robust he and his party are prepared to be. For example, would they be prepared to say that there will be no...
John Hayes: rose—
John Hayes: Does the hon. and learned Gentleman agree that, ultimately, symbols of identity—the phrase that he used— and a sense of citizenship are inseparable; that, without them and the sense of belonging to something or of being something, citizenship becomes ever less significant; and that citizenship ceases to have real weight and meaning once it becomes insignificant?
John Hayes: Does my hon. Friend concede that the principle at stake is one that does not stigmatise individuals in specific categories, but looks at poverty in terms of income rather than in terms of broad and bland categories? That is the difference between the Conservative approach and the Labour approach: it is not that we do not care about the poor, but we want to identify the right people to whom we...
John Hayes: For benefit of the House, would the hon. Gentleman care to repeat and elaborate on his allegation that a significant number of disabled people claiming disability living allowance are not disabled, but are perfectly fit and able-bodied? Will he take this opportunity either to withdraw that allegation, or to confirm and justify it?
John Hayes: In developing this argument about democratic legitimacy, which I believe that he does appropriately, will my hon. Friend agree that the effect is multiplied by the increasing remoteness of the exercise of power and incomprehension on the part of the electorate? The point about the exercise that we are going through, which the treaty exacerbates, is that the vast majority of the electorate...
John Hayes: I had a meeting earlier today on this very subject. We discussed the precise examples in Essex that the Minister has given. The creation of the new salt marshes conflicts to some extent with the water abstraction policy of some of the water companies. Does he have any view on that in respect of the trials?
John Hayes: rose—
John Hayes: Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
John Hayes: The hon. Member for Broxtowe (Dr. Palmer) said—no doubt Hansard will bear this out— "We have no choice." He did not suggest merely that we were there influencing affairs, as he subsequently claimed in his brief intervention; he said that this was determined and inevitable, and that we had no choice.
John Hayes: I regret that I have interrupted the hon. Gentleman's charismatic performance. Am I right in thinking that I heard him say that we should be dealing with the broad aims of the treaty rather than the detail? Surely the detail is what we should be examining. If we do not consider the details of treaties, what are we here for?
John Hayes: Does the hon. Gentleman therefore think that it is feasible to enlarge the Union but not to allow all members equal status in the CAP? Is he saying that the CAP is inappropriate for new members? If he is not saying that it is inappropriate, and that new members should be included in the CAP, the problems that he has described will be exacerbated.
John Hayes: The hon. Gentleman mentioned Hungary, which has 1.1 million small farmers. One reason why Hungary wants to enter the European Union is that it appreciates the benefits of a common agricultural policy, be it in its current form or in a form envisaged under Agenda 2000. The problems that he described will be exacerbated by admission of some eastern and central European countries that have far...
John Hayes: Given the right hon. Gentleman's answer to the previous question, and the comprehensive audit that has been carried out, perhaps he will answer a few specific questions—
John Hayes: One specific question, then. Will the right hon. Gentleman tell us how many older turnkey systems are in use in central Government Departments? The problem is more profound with older line of business turnkey systems, rather than with office productivity systems or hardware. How many of the turnkey systems in existence in Government Departments are more than five years old? Any that are more...
John Hayes: The Minister wants the referendum to be held on the same day as local elections. Is that because he fears the possibility of a derisory turnout in the referendum, thus removing the mandate to act? I am mindful of course of the experience in Wales. To support what I have said, may I tell him that I was in Greenwich this morning discussing the matter? Not only had no one to whom I spoke heard...
John Hayes: Will the hon. Lady define more closely what she describes as "political interference" and the difference, in her estimation, between such interference and the exercise of political will as accountable to the electorate?
John Hayes: Can my hon. Friend explain the precedent for the matter? Has this body typically consisted of entirely new Members or has it been more balanced?
John Hayes: Much has been said about the new Members, but we have heard nothing about them specifically. Mr. Deputy Speaker has told us that the motion concerns six individuals. Could we hear some more, at some length, about their curricula vitae?
