Mr Dick Taverne: May I say how much I welcomed the remarks at the end of the speech by the right hon. Member for Carshalton (Mr. Carr). He seemed this afternoon to be drawing back from the brink over which he plunged rather recklessly on two occasions yesterday. There are completely different problems about a Finance Bill when there is a minority Government. Last night I accused the Opposition of behaving...
Mr Dick Taverne: We are facing an extraordinary situation in which Opposition Members are in a position to carry any amendment which they move. They therefore have power, and they do not exercise responsibility. The position is that under the Finance Bill at this stage it is impossible to increase taxation. All we can do is to lessen the burden of taxation. If hon. Members opposite are serious about talking...
Mr Dick Taverne: I shall be as brief as I can. A number of excellent speeches have been made and some of the things I intended to say have already been said better than I could put them by the hon. Members for Ashfield (Mr. Marquand), Inverness (Mr. Johnston) and others. It is interesting to note that, except for the speech made by the Foreign Secretary, I have not heard from the Government benches any...
Mr Dick Taverne: Of course it is not a simple matter. It is extraordinary, however, that a British Government should now say that we are prepared to break a treaty because in the past we did not agree with a different Government who signed it. That has been the view of many other Governments which we ourselves denounced—that simply because they do not agree with a treaty which has been signed by their...
Mr Dick Taverne: One would not have guessed from the atmosphere in the Committee that we were debating the country's economic future. When this debate began I counted nine Conservative Members present. Since then, no doubt attracted by the electric delivery of the right hon. Member for Farnham (Mr. Macmillan), these numbers have increased. There are now about a dozen. During these debates from this side there...
Mr Dick Taverne: I have just been referring to my erstwhile colleagues. I said that there were at least two of them——
Mr Dick Taverne: There are several of them present—about four. I was referring to those who took a dynamic part in the debates and said that they amounted to half that number—namely, two—apart, of course, from the Paymaster-General, for whom I have the greatest respect. We have debated in the past whether the Finance Bill should be considered in Committee upstairs, and I believe that there is something...
Mr Dick Taverne: They suggest that the picture if one quotes pre-tax figures is nothing like as bad as if one quotes after-tax figures.
Mr Dick Taverne: Does the right hon. Gentleman not admit that a sum almost as large as that was lost by Lincolnshire because of the way in which the needs element was calculated under the previous Secretary of State's formula—particularly the abandonment of the road mileage system and the substitution of the average system, costing in the region of £2¾ million.
Mr Dick Taverne: I congratulate the hon. Member for Northampton, South (Mr. Morris) on his maiden speech, which was as eloquently phrased as it was confidently delivered. His predecessor, Mr. Reginald Paget, was also a great master of phrases. I am sure that the hon. Gentleman is a worthy successor. I also hope that he shows the same independence of mind as his predecessor showed, to which the hon. Gentleman...
Mr Dick Taverne: If the speeches that have so far been made in this Parliament are anything to go by, then, as the right hon. Member for Chipping Barnet (Mr. Maudling) indicated, we are in for a very interesting Parliament. We are not letting an automatic viewpoint expressed; we are getting speeches which take different lines, which no doubt keep the Whips on tenterhooks, and which spread doubt on how far the...
Mr Dick Taverne: I agree with the hon. Gentleman that the way in which the Queen's Speech has been presented, the programme which has been put forward and the speeches which have been delivered should, on the whole, command the broad support of the House, but I do not think that that is the reason which has led all the Conservatives suddenly to see the virtue of a grand coalition. The reasons which I sense...
Mr Dick Taverne: It might defeat the Government, which might bring them down. I am not saying that it will, but it might. It might bring down the Government on a Queen's Speech which many hon. Members regard as reasonable.
Mr Dick Taverne: The Government would be perfectly entitled to say that if they could not carry through a Queen's Speech on a major amendment, they would seek a Dissolution. I am not saying that they should automatically get a Dissolution, but that it is a perfectly tenable view that they would. I am saying that if the Government were brought down on this amendment, it is a perfectly conceivable result that...
Mr Dick Taverne: Is it not true that what happened was clearly foreseen. The evidence to the General Sub-Committee of the Expenditure Committee early in 1972 forecast that, if the Government's policies were maintained, by the end of 1973 there would be an imbalance in the balance of payments of over £2,000 million? Therefore, although the Chief Secretary says that the balance of payments deficit was larger...
Mr Dick Taverne: I appreciate what the right hon. Gentleman and his colleagues are trying to do. How does he reconcile his remarks and aims with the purely national attitude adopted by the Government over the pooling of oil reserves? Secondly, how does he reconcile what he said about political unity with promoting a conference of Finance Ministers which has not included, and, indeed, has not been notified to,...
Mr Dick Taverne: Would the right hon. Gentleman make clear a point of utmost significance? Is it now Labour Party policy to oppose any further steps towards economic and monetary union, and will the Labour Party make this part of its conditions on renegotiation of the terms?
Mr Dick Taverne: Is not the Secretary of State being somewhat unrealistic? Since at present there is rationing but on a very haphazard, irrational and arbitrary basis, why does he not grasp the nettle and introduce rationing now? Is he not simply postponing a decision that he is bound to have to take in due course in any event?
Mr Dick Taverne: Does not the Chancellor agree that at present, when the balance of payments deficit reflects an excess of domestic demand over domestic production, if there were some domestic restraint, given present conditions of world boom, this would not be a stop and would enable production to carry on but would mean an increase in exports?
Mr Dick Taverne: Will the right hon. Gentleman please answer the question which I put to him earlier? In view of the balance of payments deficit and the world boom, does not the right hon. Gentleman recognise that if there were some restraint on home demand it would enable exports to expand and would not hold back production?
