As I understand the Minister, the Government will nominate HMRC to take the lead in  procuring the computer system. It will be responsible, although I expect that it will liaise with Departments. However, we could get into trouble if we try to design the system by committee, because all previous experience, including that which HMRC’s chief information officer relayed, has shown that, when the Government have tried to do so, the strategy has not worked. That brings me back to my response to the Minister’s speech.

The Minister trotted out the usual platitudes about regular reporting, close scrutiny and keeping a tight eye on how public money is spent, but if the procedures throughout Government are as robust as he would have us believe, how do we explain the fiascos of the CS2 system, the doubling of the cost of the NHS IT programme and the Criminal Records Bureau computer at the Home Office? If those procedures, on which the Minister seeks to rely in lieu of our new clause, are so robust, we must simply ask why on earth they keep going wrong, and why does the taxpayer keep losing billions—not millions—as a result?

It is true that, since computers were invented, Governments of all colours have had problems with information technology. I do not deny that. However, it is also true that, under this Administration, the problems have escalated to an extent never seen before. That is one reason why we are worried about the more modest system under discussion and why we want to know that it will operate effectively, on time and to budget.

The Minister did not quite answer my question about how the estimate of £40 million had been arrived at. If he wants to intervene again, I shall gladly let him. I do not want to misrepresent him, but I do not think that he explained to the Committee how the Government came to a figure of that magnitude. If he feels he answered the question, I shall not get bogged down; however, I do not think I heard him do so.