I was using PCTs as an analogy and as an example of poor Government reorganisation. Even if the majority are not in deficit, that still leaves a huge number of individuals who are affected by PCTs that are in the red, which goes back to our discussion on the previous amendment. If PCTs, whether they are in or out of funds, place the provision of speech and language therapy in the criminal justice system at the bottom of their priorities, it does not make much difference.

I have yet to find a logical, rational and cogent reason, emanating from any Home Office Minister, on the need for a change from local probation boards to probation trusts. Abolition of local probation boards and transfer of properties, and so on, are matters that the Government have yet fully and properly to explain. Although there are one or two matters of detail that they want to deal with under schedule 2, which hangs from clause 7, there has, as far as I can see, been no proper and public explanation of the need for such a managerial change.