Part of Criminal Justice and Immigration Bill – in a Public Bill Committee am 5:00 pm ar 23 Hydref 2007.
Edward Garnier
Shadow Minister (Justice)
5:00,
23 Hydref 2007
I am sure that they can be given enough thought, and today we are seeking to provoke the Government into thinking. If they do that, it will be a good thing. My concerns are added to because the Ministry of Justice is new. Although it may have all sorts of experienced officials and advisors who have been in other Departments that have dealt with these matters before, the culture of departmental government means that, by and large, once one is in one Department, one is in a silo. It is quite difficult to get the different silos in government to talk to each other. For example, we are talking about young people who are engaged in the criminal justice system. That will effect education, health, social services, children’s services, the criminal justice system and the police—a host of public authorities and agencies. I wonder whether the Ministry of Justice yet has the clout, impetus and experience to handle that. The Under-Secretary of State for Justice is rising to the challenge of co-ordinating all those great public authorities, and I hope that she is successful.
To be serious, there is an organisational and administrative issue here, which will take a lot of ministerial and political drive and leadership. I hope that we will see that from the three Ministers who sit on the Committee. However, I am sceptical and I am concerned that the Bill will fall in its implementation because of those resource problems.
I wanted to describe that issue to the Committee in moving Amendment No. 2. I assure the Minister that I will not press it to a Division because there is no point. I do, however, want some sort of understanding from the Government about how they think the Bill will work in real life. Local authority leaders on both sides of the Committee room, practitioners, certainly on this side of the room, and Ministers who have non-political experience in children’s activities, such as Re-Solv—
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Printed in the margin next to each clause is a brief explanatory `side-note' giving details of what the effect of the clause will be.
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When a bill becomes an Act of Parliament, clauses become known as sections.
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The House of Commons votes by dividing. Those voting Aye (yes) to any proposition walk through the division lobby to the right of the Speaker and those voting no through the lobby to the left. In each of the lobbies there are desks occupied by Clerks who tick Members' names off division lists as they pass through. Then at the exit doors the Members are counted by two Members acting as tellers. The Speaker calls for a vote by announcing "Clear the Lobbies". In the House of Lords "Clear the Bar" is called. Division Bells ring throughout the building and the police direct all Strangers to leave the vicinity of the Members’ Lobby. They also walk through the public rooms of the House shouting "division". MPs have eight minutes to get to the Division Lobby before the doors are closed. Members make their way to the Chamber, where Whips are on hand to remind the uncertain which way, if any, their party is voting. Meanwhile the Clerks who will take the names of those voting have taken their place at the high tables with the alphabetical lists of MPs' names on which ticks are made to record the vote. When the tellers are ready the counting process begins - the recording of names by the Clerk and the counting of heads by the tellers. When both lobbies have been counted and the figures entered on a card this is given to the Speaker who reads the figures and announces "So the Ayes [or Noes] have it". In the House of Lords the process is the same except that the Lobbies are called the Contents Lobby and the Not Contents Lobby. Unlike many other legislatures, the House of Commons and the House of Lords have not adopted a mechanical or electronic means of voting. This was considered in 1998 but rejected. Divisions rarely take less than ten minutes and those where most Members are voting usually take about fifteen. Further information can be obtained from factsheet P9 at the UK Parliament site.
