We could have a discussion about the interpretation of the word “independent” similar to that about techniques, concepts and methods. However, most people understand what “independent” means. Although the Minister has stated clearly that he wants the body to have independence, the powers for the Secretary of State in clauses 14 to 16 remove the whole concept of independence. Clause 14 takes away Natural England’s power to spend money how it wants; for example, on resources that it would need to do anything and initiatives that it might want to take. Clause 15 covers the guidance that can be given and clause 16 deals with directions.

I recognise that the Government wish to ensure that there is accountability. However, it is difficult to understand how a non-departmental public body is distinct from a departmental aspect of Government if the Secretary of State’s powers over an NDPB are virtually the same as those over his own Department. I should have thought that Natural England would want recognition that it is independent from Government, at least to a reasonable extent. Otherwise, it will not be seen in the areas in which it has responsibility as anything more than another arm of Government. It will not be able to criticise policy or suggest improvements without being seen as having the Government as its paymaster.

I suppose that there could have been opportunities for independence under the grants, but there are definitely opportunities here for the Minister. He should at least recognise that if the powers are so tightly drawn that everything that Natural England spends or grants has to be approved and if, as it says in subsection (5),

“Natural England must comply with any directions given under this section”,

that is the body—lock, stock and barrel. Whatever has gone before in the other 13 clauses, and however much we would want to create the impression of independence, clauses 14 to 16 take it away. There is no balance—it is gone—and to say that there is would be to misunderstand the Secretary of State’s powers.

I hope that, even at this late stage, the Minister will explain how he can remain true to the concept of an independent NDPB when we are asked to approve clauses 14, 15 and, in particular, 16.