Schedule 1 - Natural England

Part of Natural Environment and Rural Communities Bill – in a Public Bill Committee am 11:15 am ar 21 Mehefin 2005.

Danfonwch hysbysiad imi am ddadleuon fel hyn

Photo of Jim Knight Jim Knight Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Rural Affairs, Landscape and Biodiversity), Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs) (Rural Affairs, Landscape and Biodiversity) 11:15, 21 Mehefin 2005

As the hon. Gentleman made clear, amendments. Nos. 51, 54 and 56 deal mainly with the position of Natural England and the Commission for Rural Communities with respect to Crown immunity. He started by asking a straightforward, sensible question: for whom does Natural England hold property if not the Crown? It holds the property for itself as a body corporate. In some ways, I was confused when I first read these helpful amendments; I needed intellectually to grasp the notion that Natural England is a body corporate—we need to consider its relationship to Crown immunity—but that the   property owned by Natural England as the body corporate has a separate relationship to Crown immunity. It will help to keep that point in mind when considering the amendments.

Lines 10 and 11 of schedule 1 and lines 8 and 9 of schedule 2 make it clear that the property of Natural England and of the Commission for Rural Communities does not benefit from Crown immunity. That is perfectly normal for non-departmental public bodies of this kind. Because of the difference between Crown immunity for the body corporate and that for its property, the amendment would make all Natural England’s property subject to Crown immunity, but I shall deal with the point that I think the hon. Gentleman was trying to make.

Quite simply, giving nature reserves Crown immunity would continue the current arrangement of protecting such sites from compulsory purchase orders, such as those that would allow road-building schemes. I am sure that hon. Members on both sides of the House will agree with the right hon. Member for West Dorset (Mr. Letwin), who has said much about the importance of beauty in the environment. We certainly agree that nature reserves tend generally to be more beautiful than roads. In essence, we are trying to protect our nature reserves—for instance, from CPOs to build roads. There are other implications in respect of Crown immunity that people might want to discuss, but in essence the Bill maintains the status quo. At the heart is protection from CPOs.

Amendments Nos. 49 and 55 deal with the subsections that give Natural England and the Commission for Rural Communities powers to take action that will help them to exercise their functions. In debating this issue, we shall have the first of many debates in which we try to balance the independence that we want for Natural England and the commission to perform their functions with sufficient flexibility to allow them to do so independently.

The Committee will be probing and debating whether we narrow everything down and remove that flexibility, as these amendments would do, for instance, by saying that someone is allowed to have property only for administrative purposes and for offices. The amendments do not foresee any circumstances in which the bodies might want to do something different, and would not give them the flexibility to anticipate what might happen in the future.

The powers in the clauses are standard: they apply to all statutory public bodies. Such a body, in any event, would have to seek ministerial approval for capital acquisitions and the disposal of assets. Amendment No. 49 goes further than amendment No. 55. Clause 13(2) gives a list of examples of conducive and incidental powers that are standard for any non-departmental statutory public body. I know that later on we shall debate the amendment in respect of conducive and incidental powers.

Amendment No. 49 would modify the list to allow Natural England to acquire property only for administrative purposes—for example, office blocks—and not for the pursuit of its purposes. I hope that the   Committee understands that this has the potential to restrict significantly how Natural England is able to further its purposes, such as the example given in clause 2(2)(c) of securing the provision and improvement of facilities in connection with the study, understanding and enjoyment of the natural environment. For example, Natural England might want to have an interpretation centre in connection with one of its nature reserves. That is not an administrative function and it would not require an office block. It would be too restrictive on the ability of Natural England to further its educative purpose if we did not allow it to acquire such property.

I should also like to reassure hon. Members that, because Natural England must behave in a reasonable manner in all that it does, they need not be concerned that it will aim to become a large estate holding body. I know that that is a key concern of the hon. Member for South-East Cambridgeshire. The Countryside Agency currently holds property only for administrative purposes. However, as with the commission, I do not want to put a straitjacket on it with regard to what may happen in the exercising of its functions. I confess that it is difficult to anticipate how a watchdog might need to acquire or dispose of property, but I do not want to put that straitjacket on it at this stage in a way exceptional to that for the other similar statutory bodies that we have already set up.

English Nature holds or leases 218 national nature reserves. Its policy is to purchase or lease land only when it is manifestly the most effective way of securing public benefits. To reassure the hon. Gentleman, we expect Natural England to continue this policy and, crucially, its budget will be set accordingly. It is unnecessary to restrict the power in the manner proposed in the amendment. On that basis, I hope that the hon. Gentleman will withdraw it.