I apologise to the hon. Member for Woking. I just thought that it might be helpful—notwithstanding the possibility of his having many cogent comments to make that I had not thought of—to give him a steer on my attitude to his amendment. I hope that he does not think that I took his amendment lightly in making some remarks at the start.

I take the hon. Gentleman's point about the danger of lists. He knows that the original proposal for a limited statutory list of circumstances in which it would be conclusively presumed—that was the view at that stage—that the complainant did not consent was contained in ''Setting the Boundaries'' and opened to consultation. As a result of the strong views expressed during that consultation, it was felt that it was right to have a list that made a statement and sent a message to courts and society at large about the circumstances in which we as a society will not condone sexual activity, and about the bottom-line assumptions that I referred to today when we were debating the principles.

The hon. Gentleman outlined the danger that, once there is a list, there are questions about what should be on it and how extensive it should be. Having decided in principle that it was right to have some presumptions in legislation, we have taken the approach that the list should be very limited and, building on the results of the consultation, that we should have a list of rebuttable presumptions so that, even in those circumstances, if the defendant could adduce sufficient evidence to convince the judge that there was an issue about consent, there would be a possibility of his having that issue incorporated into the trial.

We know that putting presumptions of any kind into legislation is a serious matter. We have tried to strike a balance when using the presumptions to make that important statement—the consensus was that, on balance, that was a good thing to do—and when framing the conclusive and rebuttable presumptions. The rebuttable presumptions enable the defendant to make a case or try to make a case. We have tried to strike a balance between making the statement and the interests of complainants and defendants. Even though we have presumptions, the concern is obviously framing those provisions in a way that does not compromise the principle that somebody is innocent until proven guilty.

On the question asked by my hon. and learned Friend the Member for Redcar about mental inability, the main point about subsection (2)(e) is that the complainant has a physical disability as a result of which she would not have been able, at the time of the relevant act, to communicate to the defendant whether she consented. For other kinds of disability, the court must take into account as a matter of judgment whether that disability impeded communication; but where someone is physically unable to speak, we argue that unless the defendant can adduce evidence to the contrary, it will be presumed that that person could not have consented because of their literal inability to

communicate. Other disabilities are more open to interpretation and judgment.

As you are not allowing a clause stand part debate, Mr. Gale, I shall sum up briefly. We have thoroughly debated, now and previously, the principles and the detail of clause 76. I commend the clause as we propose to amend it to the Committee.

Amendment agreed to.

Clause 76, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.