I beg to move amendment No. 960, in

clause 269, page 149, line 4, after 'Part', insert '9 or'.

Clause 269 extends parts of the Bill to Northern Ireland. Government amendment No. 960 adds part 9 to the list of those that can be extended to Northern Ireland using an Order in Council that is subject to the negative resolution procedure under section 85 of the Northern Ireland Act 1998 or the schedule to the Northern Ireland Act 2000. We have done that because the Committee has had the opportunity to discuss the provisions of the Bill to which the amendment relates.

I want to put on the record how much I detest the use of Orders in Council to legislate for the people of Northern Ireland. When the Assembly was suspended on 14 October 2002, 22 Bills were before it, and all but one have been pushed through the House using Orders in Council. Northern Ireland Members who take their seats in this place—it is right that they do so, and I wish that the other four would, too—can talk until they are blue in the face, but they will not make a jot of difference to those Orders in Council. Will the Minister therefore explain why the Government have made this unsatisfactory procedure for legislating for the people of Northern Ireland even more offensive by opting for the negative rather than the affirmative resolution procedure? He

might make me a little happier although, at the end of the day, Orders in Council are wholly inappropriate.

The hon. Lady knows that I absolutely agree with her concerns, and I have expressed the same view ever since I came to the House. The matter is not entirely the responsibility of the Home Office, although the Bill is. However, it is unacceptable that citizens in one part of the United Kingdom should not have the same rights as those in other parts. Their representatives should be able to debate and amend Government proposals that affect them. Representatives of people in Northern Ireland have a chance to debate and amend Bills that relate to the United Kingdom in general. Because of the constitutional nature of the Province, however, they cannot debate and amend proposals that relate only to Northern Ireland, which is absolutely unacceptable. It may, in theory, be possible to force a debate and to defeat them, but that is not possible in practice, because the Government will get their way. That could discredit politics in Northern Ireland and make people wonder why they should involve themselves in the political process if so much central legislation cannot be amended to benefit them.

As the Minister rightly said, Bills are always improved by debate in Committee, on Report and so on. Home Officers Ministers regularly say that, and the Secretary of State and his predecessor did so, too. However, the same must apply to measures relating to Northern Ireland.

I again make a plea to the Minister, who is intelligent, sensitive and constitutionally alert to such issues. Will he pass back into the system the thought that it would hugely help the modernisation of Parliament if we changed the present arrangements once and for all? In that way, there would be equal rights for all citizens and Members of Parliament.

I hear the hon. Lady's point, which is clearly relevant to this amendment and the following one. I gladly undertake to draw the matter to my colleagues' attention. Particular issues obviously arise at present because the Assembly is suspended. In the light of that and of our debate about the principle behind the change, the Government feel that the proposals are the appropriate way forward.

Amendment agreed to.

I beg to move amendment No. 961, in

clause 269, page 149, line 5, leave out 'and (4)' and insert 'to (9)'.

With this it will be convenient to discuss Government amendments Nos. 962 and 963.

As I said a moment ago, the clause is concerned with the extension of certain parts of the Bill to Northern Ireland. Under section 85 of the Northern Ireland Act 1998, the Northern Ireland Assembly must be consulted on any Orders in Council that are to be made. Amendment No. 961 would remove consultation with the Northern Ireland Assembly for orders made under clause 269. As we have heard, criminal justice is a reserved matter in Northern Ireland, and in any event the Northern Ireland Assembly is currently suspended.

Under paragraph 2 of the schedule to the Northern Ireland Act 2000, Orders in Council made under the schedule will be subject to the affirmative resolution procedure. Amendments Nos. 962 and 963, like amendment No. 960, would ensure that Orders in Council made under the schedule for the purposes of clause 269 would be subject to the negative resolution procedure.

Amendment agreed to.

Amendments made: No. 962, in

clause 269, page 149, line 10, after 'Northern Ireland)', insert—

'(a)'.

No. 963, in

clause 269, page 149, line 14, at end insert

'and

(b) the reference in subsection (1)(a) above to subsections (3) to (9) of that section shall be read as a reference to paragraph 2 of that Schedule.'.—[Hilary Benn.]

Question proposed, That the clause, as amended, stand part of the Bill.

I was disappointed that the Minister did not address my one specific question. I asked why the Government had decided to use the negative rather than the affirmative resolution procedure. I have grave reservations about and a bitter dislike of Orders in Council.

The Minister may be aware of proposals for criminal justice and policing to be transferred to a devolved Assembly, which we hope to have in place after the acts of completion by republican paramilitaries. It may be good for justice and policing to be devolved to the Assembly, because the people of Northern Ireland and their elected representatives—the 108 Assembly Members—can scrutinise criminal justice and policing legislation. Things are wholly unsatisfactory as they are.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 269, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.