Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

I wonder whether the Minister could enlighten me. The definition of ''prison'' in Clause 217(2) is

''any place where a person serving such a sentence is liable to be detained.''

What do the words ''is liable to'' mean in that context? Why does the clause not refer simply to a place where a person is detained under the terms of clause 217(1)?

This part of the Bill on the release of prisoners on licence is welcome and the Government are doing precisely what is needed. However, although what the Clause means will be evident to judges and lawyers, unfortunately, the public are missing out yet again. We are in danger of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory because having introduced the positive concept of custody plus, we are putting it to the public as imprisonment minus. We all seem to agree on the concepts in the chapter relating to the release of prisoners on licence, but I wonder whether we could not phrase the provisions in such a way that would enable the ordinary member of the public to understand them.

It is the old cliché; offenders get 12 months but are out after six. The chapter turns that round so that an offender will get six months but must keep his nose clean for another six. In their wording, the Government have failed to recognise that they need to change the public's perception. I tabled Amendment No. 919, which, sadly, was not selected, but in which I defined ''sentence'' as the term of imprisonment, plus that which was served in the community or on licence. Until the terms are clear, not only for the Committee and for judges but for the public, the sentencing process will lack credibility. I ask my hon. Friend the Minister to bring the public's perception in line with reality, so that a member of the public down at the Dog and Duck does not have to engage in judicial archaeology to understand why an individual leaves prison after six months. We can explain that honestly, and I hope that the Minister will do so. Otherwise, instead of calling the chapter ''Release of prisoners on licence'', we should call it ''The dishonest sentencing section.'' We need to restore that honesty, otherwise we shall be talking to ourselves and not involving members of the public in their criminal justice system.

Let me say to the hon. Member for Somerton and Frome (Mr. Heath)

that if the word ''liable'' was not used, it would suggest that the definition depended on the offender being present in prison. If we stop to think about it, we will realise that that is not always so—for instance, when offenders are released on temporary licence. That is why the word is necessary. The definition of a fixed term of imprisonment encompasses all those serving a sentence for a determinate term and those under the age of 18 serving either an extended sentence for certain violent or sexual offences or a sentence of detention for non-dangerous offenders convicted of a serious offence.

I was much taken by the phrase ''judicial archaeology'' used by my hon. Friend the Member for Nottingham, North (Mr. Allen). For good reasons, the Committee has often been engaged in that. I am at one with my hon. Friend in wishing the public to have a better understanding of how sentencing works. That is why, in those clauses already agreed to, we made provision for the court to explain exactly what a sentence means.

My hon. Friend touched on an important point when speaking of the difference between sentence and custody. People are confused about it. The sentence is the entire period; it consists of the time spend in custody and the period on licence. However, as my hon. Friend knows, if people fail to adhere to their licence conditions, they are liable to recall, which means that they will have to serve the rest of the sentence in custody. I agree with him that the public need a better understanding of how the system works.

I hope that the requirement for the courts to explain sentences and how they work, and some of the other things that we debated earlier such as the work of the Sentencing Guidelines Council, will begin to move us towards what my hon. Friend wants to achieve, with which we all agree—namely, a better understanding of what happens, and why and how it happens.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 217 ordered to stand part of the Bill.