Clause 10 - Available amount

Part of Proceeds of Crime Bill – in a Public Bill Committee am 12:45 pm ar 20 Tachwedd 2001.

Danfonwch hysbysiad imi am ddadleuon fel hyn

Photo of Norman Baker Norman Baker Shadow Spokesperson (Home Affairs) 12:45, 20 Tachwedd 2001

The hon. Gentleman has raised an important issue, to which I hope the Minister will respond. One of the Bill's underlying philosophies, which my colleagues and I support, is to catch criminals who have so far escaped justice—even if, as stated on Second Reading, they are the ``pillars of society''. We are talking about people who are respected and who appear to have committed no illegal activities, but people about whom there is evidence to disprove that. The Government want to ensure that such people are brought to justice or their assets seized. They are right to do so. Those people will not necessarily stand out as having a criminal lifestyle. The ordinary shopkeeper whom the hon. Member for Beaconsfield described, or the ordinary supplier of goods and services, may be caught up by these arrangements in a situation that is to their great disbenefit.

I am thinking of a case in my Constituency that related to a different Bill, but it could equally apply here. A one-man builder secured a big contract for a seemingly respectable person. He then spent six to nine months on the job and got in subcontractors to help. The person went bankrupt, with the result that the builder went bankrupt too, owing the subcontractor lots of money. I would not want that situation to be repeated here unnecessarily. This is not about how much money is taken from the person who has illegally obtained proceeds from crime. The amount will stay the same. The question is what happens to it. It is wrong if innocent people such as small shopkeepers, one-man businesses or whatever will suffer as a consequence.

The Minister will tell us that there would be problems in saying who was a legitimate beneficiary and who had a legitimate contract with the person who was deemed to have the illegal proceeds of crime. I accept that. But we must find a way to protect ordinary people who can have no way of knowing that the person with whom they have an agreement has been involved in crime. They have entered a legitimate contract to provide something in return for money, yet before they know where they are, this person has been swept up in the criminal or civil proceedings and they cannot receive the money to which they are duly entitled. None of us wants to weaken the legislation and make it easier for someone to get off the hook or to keep money to which they are not entitled, but if we can find a way to ensure that innocent third parties do not suffer, that must be to the benefit of everyone.

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