I welcome you to the Chair, Mr. Pike. You had some flavour of the issues that the Committee will have to address when you chaired the Programming Sub-Committee this morning. Before lunch, your fellow Chairman expressed regret that he had to interrupt me in full flow. Perhaps you could pass my gratitude to him for interrupting me, because there is always more time, and he has given me an opportunity to reflect more carefully on what I was saying. I have revisited some of the reservations that I expressed this morning, and I no longer hold them.

I have again considered the amendments tabled by the hon. Member for North Down (Lady Hermon), and I think that I now understand them better. I shall try to explain my understanding of them. I hope that she will bear with me and accept my apologies if my earlier comments reflected an incomplete understanding of the group. Perhaps I should ask her to confirm whether my understanding is now correct.

The intention of the amendments is to give High Court judges the same tenure as the Lord Chief Justice and the Lord Justices of Appeal. My earlier comments attempted to draw out whether a change had been proposed to the appointments arrangements for High Court judges, but that does not seem to be so on reflection. Part of the reason for my comments—I have to give some excuse—is that the amendments

would not entirely achieve what the hon. Lady would like. That does not matter, as they allow us to debate the issue.

The hon. Lady appears to propose that High Court judges continue to be appointed by the commission, but that they continue to fall within the provisions of clause 6 on dismissal, along with the Lord Chief Justice and the appeal court judges. The amendments are not complete, as various consequential amendments would be needed to meet the hon. Lady's objectives, especially on appointment. That would involve the addition of the words ''and judges of the High Court'' at various places, but we need not concern ourselves too much about that.

At this stage, it would help if the hon. Lady would suggest in some way that I have a basic understanding of what she seeks to achieve. Whether or not she does so, I shall proceed.

The hon. Lady has accepted the proposed split on appointment, so I would be grateful if she would reconsider whether it would be more appropriate to be consistent on how the removal provisions were applied as well. The review's recommendation, which will be enacted in the Bill, is in line with Scotland, where appointments and removal to the equivalent level are devolved. Clause 6 differs from clause 7 in the way in which removals can be organised. In all cases, a tribunal needs to be established under the Bill to decide whether dismissal is appropriate. In the case of the Lord Chief Justice and the Appeal Court judges, there is an additional element to the proceedings. If the tribunal recommends dismissal, the matter also needs to be approved by both Houses of Parliament.

In a sense, that provides a greater level of protection. In practice, the different procedure reflects differences in the appointments process rather than the need for greater protection. The tribunal would still be the key element in proceedings. Given that Her Majesty appoints the most senior judges, it would not be appropriate to permit their removal without a vote of Parliament.

As I understand it, the hon. Lady is content that the appointments procedure for High Court judges should differ from that for the Lord Chief Justice and the Appeal Court judges. I hope that she agrees that the logical consequence of that is that they should also fall under the clause 7 provisions. The different process for removal is a reflection of the different process for appointment.