Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [HL] — Commons Amendments

Part of the debate – in the House of Lords am 4:00 pm ar 16 Mawrth 2015.

Danfonwch hysbysiad imi am ddadleuon fel hyn

Photo of Lord Astor of Hever Lord Astor of Hever The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Defence 4:00, 16 Mawrth 2015

My Lords, I thank noble and noble and gallant Lords for their general support for these amendments. I will do my best to answer their questions.

The noble and gallant Lord, Lord Stirrup, pointed out, quite rightly, that there would be a larger number of complaints. Obviously, people in the ombudsman’s office will have to take on a lot of that workload so it is really important that the staff she takes on have the right skills and qualifications for the job and are properly trained. We are well aware of that. This is something that we must work through carefully with the Service Complaints Commissioner as part of the ongoing work to prepare for the implementation of the new system.

I can say to the noble and gallant Lord and other noble Lords who are interested in this issue that my noble friend Lady Jolly and I met Nicola Williams last week and we were very impressed by her. I have arranged for her to meet any interested Peers at 11.30 am on Wednesday 25 March in Room 10A. My office will write to all those noble Lords who we think might be interested. However, I can tell noble and noble and gallant Lords that she is well aware that those people working in her office must be properly selected and must have the adequate training. We discussed that at great length with her. She has considerable experience as an ombudsman and I am sure that she will carry on the good work of the previous commissioner, Dr Susan Atkins. She agrees that it is important that she and those working in her office have a thorough understanding of how the services operate. She assured me that she will be making frequent visits to all three services and will encourage those who work in her office to do the same thing so that they understand the ethos of the services. She understood that that was a really important point. I can give the noble and gallant Lord the assurance that we will come back to the House before the regulations are considered.

I thank my noble friend Lord Palmer for his support. He asked how many cases are in the pipeline: I understand that it is about 1,000. My noble friend asked what would stop a complainant making a slightly different complaint. Recent complaints on the same matter will, as now, not be permitted.

In a speech that I very much look forward to reading in Hansard, the noble and learned Lord, Lord Brown, was concernedthat this would undermine the chain of command. We have been clear from the start that the authority of the chain of command should not be compromised by the creation of an ombudsman. Maintaining the integrity of the chain of command is essential for our ability to deploy battle-winning forces. We have achieved the right balance with these reforms and the Chief of the Defence Staff has confirmed that the amendments made in the Commons do not substantially affect the primacy of the chain of command because the Service Complaints Ombudsman can investigate only the substance of a complaint after the chain of command has done so or where the chain of command decides not to investigate and the complainant still wishes to pursue the matter. The noble and learned Lord also mentioned the selection and training of those working in the ombudsman’s office. This is an issue that we take very seriously.

I thank the noble Lord, Lord Dannatt, for his support and also my noble friend Lady Manzoor, who I understand was Legal Services Ombudsman for England and Wales and therefore knows a lot about this issue. I also thank my noble friend Lord Thomas of Gresford.

The noble and gallant Lord, Lord Craig, asked whether we will review the size of the team if the services get their act together. We will obviously keep the numbers under review and we hope that, if things go well, the number of people working in the office will be reduced. The number must be proportionate, but it is important to point out that the ombudsman’s office can investigate only matters arising from this legislation; they cannot go off and consider other things.

I thank the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, for the Opposition’s support for the Bill. The noble Lord asked me several questions. He pointed out that the commissioner’s role will be expanded and asked what additional resources the office would get. We envisage the extra cost to be around £500,000 and anticipate that her staff numbers will rise from nine up to 20.

The noble Lord asked what would happen if six different people were to make a complaint. This would be up to the commissioner to decide. The noble Lord also asked the same question as my noble friend Lord Palmer: what happens if a complaint is already in the pipeline? The complainant will not be able to make a complaint about the same issue twice under the new system.

The noble Lord asked what “investigate” means in Amendment 1 and who would decide. It would be for the commissioner to determine, but the investigation could relate only to a service complaint or an allegation of maladministration.

The noble Lord also asked when the new system would come into effect. Before the new system can be introduced, the services and the commissioner’s office need to convert their current structure and processes to the new ways of working. We also need to put the necessary regulations in place and issue guidance to personnel on how the new process will work. Much initial work has already been done, but it is important that we get it right. We therefore expect the new system to be introduced by the end of this year. Nicola Williams will be appointed as the Services Complaints Ombudsman by Her Majesty once the Bill is brought into force.

The noble Lord asked why the Northern Ireland amendment is so late. It is because we did not have the approval of the Northern Ireland Office to do it earlier.

The noble Lord, Lord Dannatt, asked me about delays to complaints. I can provide him with an assurance that we will continue to bear down on delays in handling complaints. All three services are working hard to clear the backlog of complaints and to make sure they are dealt with as quickly as possible.

My noble friend Lady Manzoor asked whether the complainant would have the opportunity to comment on draft reports. That will be a matter for the ombudsman. We anticipate that happening at least in cases where the chain of command is asked to comment.