I do not accept that, either. The restrictions that the Bill still places on building societies relate to activity which it would be best that they did not engage in. I do not believe that there is a popular view, for example, that building societies should engage in the derivatives market, which is known to be extremely risky. If the Bill provides, as it does, that in future building societies should still stay out of the derivatives market, it is showing sound judgment. That is what ought to happen.

I do not accept the thrust of my hon. Friend's arguments. I believe that a society that decides to convert and to become a bank should do so in the full knowledge that it is moving from the context of the building societies legislation into the context of the Banking Act 1987. Before it takes that fundamental step, it must be sure that it can manage in the new world in which it proposes to operate. If it considers that it cannot do that or if, as my hon. Friend would say, it considers that it has not had long enough to gain experience of indulging in the other activities that the 1987 Act permits, it has not yet reached the stage where it should be taking that decision.

If ever protection were afforded to mutual status, and the advantages and benefits of mutual status were recognised, that argument brings home the fact that such status should not be lightly abandoned.

My hon. Friend said that it had not been possible for societies to develop the range of activities that they believe they will need in order to be on an equal footing with banks. For that reason, I emphasise again that the Bill will give them the opportunity to develop their expertise in the areas from which they have up to now been excluded. Having developed that expertise, in a few years they will be able to convert to banks if they so choose, and there will be no need for any artificial protection such as that in the Bill or especially that in my hon. Friend's amendment.