Part of the debate – in the House of Commons am 10:47 am ar 25 Gorffennaf 1991.
I begin by congratulating the hon. Member for Fermanagh and South Tyrone (Mr. Maginnis) on initiating this debate on an important subject. It is important not only to hon. Members, as he made clear, and to the Government, as I shall make clear, but, as he was right to say, to all people who live in Northern Ireland.
I am pleased that the hon. Gentleman started his speech by paying tribute to the Chief Constable. I echo that tribute. Given the job that all chief constables have to do in the United Kingdom—it is not an easy job in any circumstances, as the House is well aware—there are special difficulties in being Chief Constable of the RUC. I am happy to associate the Government with the tribute that the hon. Gentleman paid to the Chief Constable. I am glad that he paid it because in the rest of his speech there was a degree of robustness about some of his comments which will be studied with care by those to whom they were directed.
I do not dispute the hon. Gentleman's right to express his views or those of his constituents, or to reflect the views of the federation to which he quite properly referred. However, he and I both understand the importance of reflecting those views within a balanced framework, so that we do not create an impression that would be unhelpful to those whom we oppose. We must not create the impression that matters in Northern Ireland are worse than they are, or that we are not encouraged by and proud of what the Royal Ulster Constabulary and the reserve achieve on behalf of the community. I am sure that the hon. Gentleman agrees with those sentiments.
The hon. Gentleman will understand that he took a significant proportion of the time available and there is no way in which I can answer all the points that he raised, but the Government and, I am sure, the Chief Constable will want to read and reflect on his remarks. A number of questions that he raised about the Chief Constable's report are matters for the Chief Constable. Given the strictures in his speech and his remarks about the relationship between the Northern Ireland Office and the Chief Constable, I shall leave the Chief Constable to answer; otherwise, I shall expose myself to even more strictures the next time that the hon. Gentleman makes a speech on that subject.
To suggest that Ministers believe that the security problems of Northern Ireland started two weeks ago and will finish two weeks hence is not a reflection on Ministers but an untypical reflection on the hon. Gentleman, who knows better. He knows the record of the Government's commitment and he also knows, better than most hon. Members, that the security forces and the RUC are not divorced from Government. It is the Secretary of State's responsibility to set security policies. No one argues that the RUC is not operationally independent, but if the hon. Gentleman reads what he has said in Hansard he will see that he has given the impression that he would like the RUC to be almost divorced from Government. The relationship is entirely proper and Ministers are not involved in making operational decisions. Given the tone of the hon. Gentleman's speech, he may take some comfort from that.
The Chief Constable has a responsibility to convey to the people of Northern Ireland how he sees the circumstances at any particular time. As the hon. Gentleman rightly stated, the Chief Constable said that the threat is higher than it has been for the past two years. To extrapolate from that statement, as the hon. Gentleman sought to do, that there had been no improvement over the years and that we could not look forward to a bright future does not do justice to the Chief Constable. The hon. Gentleman knows better than almost any hon. Member that the level of terrorist violence is cyclical—that is not technically the best word, but it ebbs and flows. It is therefore right to recognise the advantages and successes, just as it is appropriate to recognise the difficult times. To chastise the Chief Constable for drawing attention to his honest assessment, which the hon. Gentleman would surely want the people of Northern Ireland to have, is unfortunate.
Although I cannot, off the top of my head, verify that every incident to which the hon. Gentleman referred emanated from the Republic, no one could deny that there have been incidents emanating from across the border. That cannot be denied because it is on public record, so the hon. Gentleman's suggestion that Ministers were trying to protect hon. Members from that knowledge does not stand up. People have committed crimes in Northern Ireland and then gone across the border. It is also a matter of public record that crimes have emanated from inside Northern Ireland and people have gone to ground there having committed those crimes.
The hon. Gentleman's arguments would have been more balanced had he also referred to the Garda's activities in terms of what they positively achieve, as well as expressing legitimate concerns. To the year ending 31 May this year, the Garda recovered 59 weapons, 16,000 rounds of ammunition and 58·2 kg of explosives. That did not just happen. It reflects police work and co-operation across the border between the RUC and the Garda. The hon. Gentleman is asked not only by Ministers but by the Chief Constable to accept that, although security relations across the border can and need to be improved, the relations between the RUC and the Garda are, I am told, very good. They are improving not at a social or professional level but at an operational level, which is the point that the hon. Gentleman sought to make. That is important to us both.