Citation, Regulations, Orders, Extent and Commencement

Orders of the Day — Local Government Finance and Valuation Bill – in the House of Commons am 9:15 pm ar 12 Mehefin 1991.

Danfonwch hysbysiad imi am ddadleuon fel hyn

Photo of Mr Dick Douglas Mr Dick Douglas , Dunfermline West 9:15, 12 Mehefin 1991

I beg to move amendment No. 11, in page 6, line 41, leave out from 'instrument' to 'House' in line 42 and insert 'which shall not come into effect unless a draft of the instrument has been laid before and approved by each'. I shall be brief on this simple issue of principle. The Government repeatedly argue that this is a paving measure. It is a time-honoured practice to use statutory instruments. About 100 years ago we might have been able to go against that practice, but it is difficult to do so today.

The Bill is a new and significant measure that affects everybody in Scotland, England and Wales. Statutory instruments using the negative procedure do nothing to enhance the stature of Parliament. The least that the Government can do for the mother of Parliaments is to replace the Bill's entitlement to use the negative procedure with the affirmative procedure. For many years we have seen how the Government majority operates and it has been demonstrated again in Committee. If the Government do not accept my amendment, I intend to divide the Committee.

Photo of Robert Key Robert Key , Salisbury

I shall explain the procedure. I cannot understand why hon. Members should wish to have an affirmative resolution each time that it is necessary to make some minor technical change to the definition of domestic property in England, Scotland or Wales, or to prescribe that a property which stands in more than one area shall, for the purposes of valuation, be deemed to stand within a single, specified area. I accept that the hon. Member for Dunfermline, West (Mr. Douglas) was focusing largely on the regulations to be made under clause 3(3), which prescribes the assumptions and principles on which the valuation is to be carried out.

These are important matters, but they do not warrant the affirmative resolution procedure. That is because the underlying principle of the valuation, the banding of domestic property, is in the Bill. The regulations about assumptions are subject to negative resolution, following the precedent for similar regulations for non-domestic rating made under paragraph 2(8) of schedule 6 to the Local Government Finance Act 1988. Therefore, this is not something new and untried. I assure the Committee that there is no question of wishing to minimise the influence of Parliament. As I have said, these are technical matters and the negative resolution procedures are the most appropriate way for them to be dealt with.

Photo of Mr Dick Douglas Mr Dick Douglas , Dunfermline West

In the light of that extremely unsatisfactory reply, I shall press the amendment to a vote.

Question put, That the amendment be made:—

The Committee divided: Ayes 177, Noes 270.

Division No. 171][10.28
AYES
Abbott, Ms DianeHaynes, Frank
Adams, Mrs Irene (Paisley, N.)Hinchliffe, David
Allen, GrahamHogg, N. (C'nauld & Kilsyth)
Alton, DavidHome Robertson, John
Archer, Rt Hon PeterHowells, Geraint
Armstrong, HilaryHowells, Dr. Kim (Pontypridd)
Ashdown, Rt Hon PaddyHughes, John (Coventry NE)
Ashley, Rt Hon JackHughes, Robert (Aberdeen N)
Ashton, JoeHughes, Roy (Newport E)
Barnes, Harry (Derbyshire NE)Hughes, Simon (Southwark)
Barnes, Mrs Rosie (Greenwich)Illsley, Eric
Barron, KevinIngram, Adam
Battle, JohnJones, Barry (Alyn & Deeside)
Beckett, MargaretJones, Martyn (Clwyd S W)
Beith, A. J.Kaufman, Rt Hon Gerald
Bell, StuartLambie, David
Bellotti, DavidLamond, James
Bermingham, GeraldLeadbitter, Ted
Blair, TonyLeighton, Ron
Blunkett. DavidLewis, Terry
Boateng, PaulLitherland, Robert
Boyes, RolandLivingstone, Ken
Bradley, KeithLivsey, Richard
Bray, Dr JeremyLloyd, Tony (Stretford)
Brown, Nicholas (Newcastle E)Loyden, Eddie
Brown, Ron (Edinburgh Leith)McAllion, John
Caborn, RichardMcAvoy, Thomas
Callaghan, JimMacdonald, Calum A.
Campbell, Menzies (Fife NE)McFall, John
Campbell, Ron (Blyth Valley)McKay, Allen (Barnsley West)
Canavan, DennisMcKelvey, William
Carlile, Alex (Mont'g)McMaster, Gordon
Carr, MichaelMcWilliam, John
Clark, Dr David (S Shields)Madden, Max
Clarke, Tom (Monklands W)Mahon, Mrs Alice
Clelland, DavidMarek, Dr John
Cohen, HarryMarshall, David (Shettleston)
Cryer, BobMartin, Michael J. (Springburn)
Cummings, JohnMartlew, Eric
Cunliffe, LawrenceMeale, Alan
Dalyell, TamMichael, Alun
Darling, AlistairMichie, Bill (Sheffield Heeley)
Davies, Ron (Caerphilly)Michie, Mrs Ray (Arg'l & Bute)
Davis, Terry (B'ham Hodge H'I)Moonie, Dr Lewis
Dewar, DonaldMorgan, Rhodri
Dixon, DonMorley, Elliot
Dobson, FrankMorris, Rt Hon J. (Aberavon)
Douglas, DickMowlam, Marjorie
Duffy, A. E. P.Murphy, Paul
Dunnachie, JimmyNellist, Dave
Dunwoody, Hon Mrs GwynethOakes, Rt Hon Gordon
Eastham, KenO'Brien, William
Edwards, HuwO'Hara, Edward
Ewing, Mrs Margaret (Moray)Parry, Robert
Fatchett, DerekPatchett, Terry
Faulds, AndrewPendry, Tom
Fearn, RonaldPike, Peter L.
Fields, Terry (L'pool B G'n)Powell, Ray (Ogmore)
Flynn, PaulPrescott, John
Foot, Rt Hon MichaelPrimarolo, Dawn
Foster, DerekQuin, Ms Joyce
Foulkes, GeorgeRedmond, Martin
Fraser, JohnReid, Dr John
Fyfe, MariaRichardson, Jo
Galbraith, SamRobinson, Geoffrey
Garrett, John (Norwich South)Ross, Ernie (Dundee W)
Godman, Dr Norman A.Rowlands, Ted
Golding, Mrs LlinRuddock, Joan
Gordon, MildredSedgemore, Brian
Gould, BryanSheerman, Barry
Graham, ThomasSheldon, Rt Hon Robert
Grant, Bernie (Tottenham)Shore, Rt Hon Peter
Griffiths, Nigel (Edinburgh S)Skinner, Dennis
Griffiths, Win (Bridgend)Smith, Andrew (Oxford E)
Hain, PeterSmith, C. (Isl'ton & F'bury)
Hardy, PeterSmith, Rt Hon J. (Monk'ds E)
Harman, Ms HarrietSmith, J. P. (Vale of Glam)
Soley, CliveWatson, Mike (Glasgow, C)
Spearing, NigelWelsh, Andrew (Angus E)
Steel, Rt Hon Sir DavidWigley, Dafydd
Steinberg, GerryWilliams, Rt Hon Alan
Strang, GavinWilliams, Alan W. (Carm'then)
Taylor, Mrs Ann (Dewsbury)Winnick, David
Taylor, Matthew (Truro)Wise, Mrs Audrey
Thomas, Dr Dafydd ElisWorthington, Tony
Thompson, Jack (Wansbeck)Young, David (Bolton SE)
Turner, Dennis
Vaz, KeithTellers for the Ayes:
Wallace, JamesMr. Archy Kirkwood and
Wardell, Gareth (Gower)Mr. Alex Salmond.
Wareing, Robert N.
NOES
Adley, RobertDicks, Terry
Aitken, JonathanDorrell, Stephen
Alexander, RichardDouglas-Hamilton, Lord James
Alison, Rt Hon MichaelDover, Den
Allason, RupertDunn, Bob
Amess, DavidDykes, Hugh
Amos, AlanEggar, Tim
Arbuthnot, JamesEvans, David (Welwyn Hatf'd)
Arnold, Sir ThomasFairbairn, Sir Nicholas
Ashby, DavidFallon, Michael
Aspinwall, JackFavell, Tony
Atkins, RobertFenner, Dame Peggy
Atkinson, DavidField, Barry (Isle of Wight)
Baker, Rt Hon K. (Mole Valley)Finsberg, Sir Geoffrey
Baker, Nicholas (Dorset N)Fishburn, John Dudley
Batiste, SpencerFookes, Dame Janet
Beggs, RoyForman, Nigel
Bellingham, HenryForsyth, Michael (Stirling)
Bendall, VivianForth, Eric
Bennett, Nicholas (Pembroke)Fowler, Rt Hon Sir Norman
Biffen, Rt Hon JohnFox, Sir Marcus
Blackburn, Dr John G.Franks, Cecil
Blaker, Rt Hon Sir PeterFreeman, Roger
Body, Sir RichardFrench, Douglas
Bonsor, Sir NicholasFry, Peter
Boscawen, Hon RobertGale, Roger
Boswell, TimGardiner, Sir George
Bowden, A. (Brighton K'pto'n)Gill, Christopher
Bowden, Gerald (Dulwich)Gilmour, Rt Hon Sir Ian
Bowis, JohnGlyn, Dr Sir Alan
Boyson, Rt Hon Dr Sir RhodesGoodhart, Sir Philip
Brandon-Bravo, MartinGoodlad, Alastair
Brazier, JulianGoodson-Wickes, Dr Charles
Bright, GrahamGorman, Mrs Teresa
Brooke, Rt Hon PeterGrant, Sir Anthony (CambsSW)
Brown, Michael (Brigg & Cl't's)Greenway, Harry (Ealing N)
Bruce, Ian (Dorset South)Greenway, John (Ryedale)
Buchanan-Smith, Rt Hon AlickGregory, Conal
Buck, Sir AntonyGriffiths, Peter (Portsmouth N)
Butcher, JohnGrist, Ian
Butler, ChrisGround, Patrick
Butterfill, JohnGrylls, Michael
Carlisle, John, (Luton N)Hague, William
Carlisle, Kenneth (Lincoln)Hamilton, Hon Archie (Epsom)
Carrington, MatthewHamilton, Neil (Tatton)
Carttiss, MichaelHanley, Jeremy
Cash, WilliamHannam, John
Channon, Rt Hon PaulHargreaves, Ken (Hyndburn)
Chapman, SydneyHarris, David
Churchill, MrHawkins, Christopher
Clark, Rt Hon Alan (Plymouth)Hayes, Jerry
Clark, Dr Michael (Rochford)Hayward, Robert
Clark, Rt Hon Sir WilliamHeathcoat-Amory, David
Clarke, Rt Hon K. (Rushcliffe)Hicks, Mrs Maureen (Wolv' NE)
Colvin, MichaelHicks, Robert (Cornwall SE)
Coombs, Anthony (Wyre F'rest)Higgins, Rt Hon Terence L.
Coombs, Simon (Swindon)Hill, James
Cope, Rt Hon JohnHind, Kenneth
Couchman, JamesHolt, Richard
Cran, JamesHordern, Sir Peter
Davies, Q. (Stamf'd & Spald'g)Howard, Rt Hon Michael
Davis, David (Boothferry)Howarth, Alan (Strat'd-on-A)
Day, StephenHowarth, G. (Cannock & B'wd)
Dickens, GeoffreyHowell, Rt Hon David (G'dford)
Hughes, Robert G. (Harrow W)Peacock, Mrs Elizabeth
Hunt, Sir John (Ravensbourne)Porter, David (Waveney)
Hunter, AndrewPortillo, Michael
Irvine, MichaelPowell, William (Corby)
Jack, MichaelPrice, Sir David
Janman, TimRaison, Rt Hon Sir Timothy
Johnson Smith, Sir GeoffreyRedwood, John
Jones, Gwilym (Cardiff N)Riddick, Graham
Jones, Robert B (Herts W)Rifkind, Rt Hon Malcolm
Jopling, Rt Hon MichaelRoberts, Sir Wyn (Conwy)
Kellett-Bowman, Dame ElaineRoe, Mrs Marion
Key, RobertRoss, William (Londonderry E)
Kilfedder, JamesRost, Peter
King, Rt Hon Tom (Bridgwater)Rowe, Andrew
Kirkhope, TimothyRumbold, Rt Hon Mrs Angela
Knapman, RogerSackville, Hon Tom
Knight, Greg (Derby North)Sayeed, Jonathan
Knowles, MichaelScott, Rt Hon Nicholas
Knox, DavidShaw, David (Dover)
Lang, Rt Hon IanShaw, Sir Michael (Scarb')
Latham, MichaelShelton, Sir William
Lee, John (Pendle)Shephard, Mrs G. (Norfolk SW)
Leigh, Edward (Gainsbor'gh)Shepherd, Richard (Aldridge)
Lennox-Boyd, Hon MarkShersby, Michael
Lester, Jim (Broxtowe)Skeet, Sir Trevor
Lloyd, Sir Ian (Havant)Smith, Tim (Beaconsfield)
Lloyd, Peter (Fareham)Soames, Hon Nicholas
Lord, MichaelSpeller, Tony
Luce, Rt Hon Sir RichardSpicer, Sir Jim (Dorset W)
Lyell, Rt Hon Sir NicholasSpicer, Michael (S Worcs)
Macfarlane, Sir NeilSquire, Robin
MacGregor, Rt Hon JohnStanbrook, Ivor
MacKay, Andrew (E Berkshire)Stanley, Rt Hon Sir John
Maclean, DavidStevens, Lewis
McLoughlin, PatrickStewart, Allan (Eastwood)
McNair-Wilson, Sir MichaelStewart, Andy (Sherwood)
McNair-Wilson, Sir PatrickStewart, Rt Hon Ian (Herts N)
Madel, DavidSumberg, David
Malins, HumfreySummerson, Hugo
Marland, PaulTapsell, Sir Peter
Marlow, TonyTaylor, Teddy (S'end E)
Marshall, John (Hendon S)Tebbit, Rt Hon Norman
Marshall, Sir Michael (Arundel)Temple-Morris, Peter
Martin, David (Portsmouth S)Thompson, D. (Calder Valley)
Mates, MichaelThompson, Patrick (Norwich N)
Maude, Hon FrancisThornton, Malcolm
Mawhinney, Dr BrianThurnham, Peter
Mayhew, Rt Hon Sir PatrickTownsend, Cyril D. (B'heath)
Mellor, Rt Hon DavidTracey, Richard
Meyer, Sir AnthonyTrippier, David
Miller, Sir HalTrotter, Neville
Mills, IainTwinn, Dr Ian
Miscampbell, NormanVaughan, Sir Gerard
Mitchell, Andrew (Gedling)Viggers, Peter
Mitchell, Sir DavidWard, John
Moate, RogerWardle, Charles (Bexhill)
Monro, Sir HectorWatts, John
Montgomery, Sir FergusWheeler, Sir John
Morris, M (N'hampton S)Whitney, Ray
Moss, MalcolmWiggin, Jerry
Neale, Sir GerrardWilkinson, John
Nelson, AnthonyWilshire, David
Neubert, Sir MichaelWinterton, Mrs Ann
Newton, Rt Hon TonyWinterton, Nicholas
Nicholls, PatrickWolfson, Mark
Nicholson, David (Taunton)Wood, Timothy
Nicholson, Emma (Devon West)Woodcock, Dr. Mike
Onslow, Rt Hon CranleyYeo, Tim
Oppenheim, PhillipYoung, Sir George (Acton)
Page, Richard
Paice, JamesTellers for the Noes:
Pattie, Rt Hon Sir GeoffreyMr. John M. Taylor and
Pawsey, JamesMr. Irvine Patrick.

Question accordingly negatived.

Clause 7 ordered to stand part of the Bill.