Part of the debate – in the House of Commons am 12:00 am ar 21 Mawrth 1979.
I speak mainly because, apart from Northern Ireland Members, I probably have more constituents than any other Member who are either detained or charged under, or in connection with, this Act following the raids which took place in Braintree early in January.
Many hon. Members have concentrated on their acceptance of the need for these provisions and, indeed, ultimately I accept the need for them. My own emphasis is on my intense dislike of the fact that we have these provisions before us and that we are faced with the distasteful need to continue them.
Not all of us could by any means agree with everything that has been said by Labour Members below the Gangway. However, I hope that they will at least accept that our distaste for these provisions is no less than theirs, even if in the end we come to a different conclusion.
In my experience, the effect on the Irish community of Braintree has been severe in terms of the anxiety and, at times, the fear they have experienced. It is particularly saddening because there is no reason whatever to believe that the vast majority of the Irish community in my constituency is not as law-abiding and hostile to terrorism as any other section of our society.
The only thing which can be said is that had there been a bomb attack which could have been traced back to Brain-tree, the effects on our Irish community would have been as severe as anything arising from the operation of the Prevention of Terrorism (Temporary Provisions) Act.
Some hon. Members have concentrated entirely on the criticisms which can be made of the Act and, in so doing, have missed the essential nature of the very difficult decision that we must take tonight. I hate this Act and I should like to see it removed as soon as possible. At the same time, I also hate terrorism and what it can do. What we must do tonight is to ask ourselves which of those threats to liberty is the greater in this society at this time.
In making that judgment, many of us, in all honesty, ought to face the fact that we are, to a substantial extent, reliant on our view of the good faith, integrity and judgment of the Secretary of State for the Home Department and the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland. I for my part am prepared, at this moment, to accept their integrity, good faith and judgment on the basis of the information available to them.
One factor which I believe we can judge for ourselves, and to which Labour Members have not given sufficient weight, concerns the risk of what would happen if we declined to renew these powers and there appeared to follow, whether or not a connection could be proved, a resurgence of bombing activity in Great Britain which caused heavy loss of life. The public backlash against Parliament and the Irish community, and the demand for powers far more severe than anything contained in the Act, would be very difficult to resist.
Having been one of those people who voted against the restoration of capital punishment for terrorist offences, I well recall the intense public demand for it to be restored at the time of the worst events which lie behind what we are discussing tonight. We could very easily see a resurgence of that kind of demand, which I believe we were right to resist at the time, and of a demand for powers beyond those in the present Act, unless we are very careful indeed. I do not believe that we should take that risk.
I come down on the side of keeping the Act but moderating it in every possible way which is felt to be right at present. I am glad that the Home Secretary indicated that he goes along with many of the proposals contained in the Shackleton report.
I should like to make two brief points. First, in the light of the concern that I know was caused to some of those who were arrested in Braintree and detained for seven days, I hope that the Home Secretary will weigh very carefully indeed what Lord Shackleton said in paragraph 148 about access to solicitors. I quote only one sentence:
It would be quite exceptional, in my view, for there to be sufficient grounds to deny a person in custody the right of access to a solicitor throughout a seven day period.
I believe that that must be right, and I hope that the Secretary of State will do everything possible to ensure that its implication is carried into practice.
Secondly, it is very important that the greatest possible care should be taken to avoid any impression whatever that the provisions of this Act are being used to cover matters beyond the issue of terrorism itself. There is one aspect of the raids in Braintree that has given me considerable concern and which I feel it right to mention. This is the fact that on one of the raids I understand that at the request of the police four Inland Revenue inspectors were also in attendance. As a net result of the raids, not only has the constituent in question been charged under section 11 of the Act, and with a number of other offences, but he has also lost his 714 certificate, which, as hon. Members know, is virtually a licence to work in the building industry.
I am still making inquiries about this matter, and I am not in a position to make a full judgment tonight. I cannot judge, nor would it be proper for me to do so, whether the charges that have been made, but which have not yet been heard, will stick, or whether the justification for withdrawing the 714 certificate was adequate. Those are matters which still must be inquired into.
However, on the face of it, it is extremely unfortunate that the issues of Prevention of Terrorism (Temporary Provisions) Act offences and tax offences in relation to the 714 certificate system—a system which in itself is seen by many people as conflicting with the normal provisions of civil liberty—should have become linked. I ask the Home Secretary to take this point on board and to do his utmost to make sure that the linking of issues in this way is not allowed to happen unless there is full justification indeed of a kind which, at any rate, is not at present available to me.