Part of the debate – in the House of Commons am 12:00 am ar 21 Mawrth 1979.
Mr Hugh Fraser
, Stafford and Stone
12:00,
21 Mawrth 1979
I am sorry that the hon. Gentleman feels that way. He may be right, but I think that it is unfortunate. If Catholics are unable to join the police force, then we must have a larger police force in Northern Ireland—more police and fewer troops. There is no conceivable way in which troops can deal with an internal security problem.
I speak from experience of terrorism.—first, as a terrorist myself during the war and, secondly, as someone who had to cope with terrorism in Malaya and Kenya. I have seen terrorism from both sides of the fence and I am convinced that the only way in which we can cope with terrorism is with a police force rather than with the Armed Forces. That is the key to the situation.
Clauses 10 and 11 of the Bill were introduced in 1976 and I believe that they are the key to the effective operation of the Act, in so far as the whole essence of dealing with terrorists is to see that they are isolated. To use the phrase of Mao Tse-tung,"The terrorist swims like a fish secretly in the tide of opinion." Control that tide, penalise that tide and the fish is caught and stranded.
Even if deterrence is not used, and section 11 has not been very much used in this country, it still means that the co-operation which the terrorist seeks will not be forthcoming. I believe that the section is an important part of the Act and I am glad that the Home Secretary intends to keep it, because terrorism will remain with us.
If one looks around the world today, one sees Yasser Arafat being saluted, as he carries 10 pistols in his belt, by the United Nations. Watching terrorist activities throughout the world, one sees the dangers which could face this country, and in that context one feels that this Act makes a contribution and plays an active part in our security.
I know that some people feel that by taking a tough line against terrorists we face the danger of upsetting many people who would then feel a greater sympathy for people who might seem, or try to make themselves appear, to be martyrs. This is a wrong attitude because it is illogical. It means the use of kid gloves against terrorists. I am convinced that, had I been told, or had my colleagues been told, that British parachutists would not be shot out of hand but would be made ordinary prisoners of war, instead of getting an MBE in the last war I would have had as many medals as the self-called Field Marshal Amin, for acts of astonishing heroism or savagery.
The fear of retribution and of discovery and the fear of the penetration of their organisation are what matter to terrorists. That is the only way we will bring terrorism under control. Unimportant though it may be against the general background, this Act makes a contribution and should be renewed.
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