Prevention of Terrorism Debate (MR. Speaker's Ruling)

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons am 12:00 am ar 21 Mawrth 1979.

Danfonwch hysbysiad imi am ddadleuon fel hyn

Photo of Mr Gerry Fitt Mr Gerry Fitt , Belfast West 12:00, 21 Mawrth 1979

Only a lawyer could advance that argument. Only a lawyer could understand what the hon. Gentleman has said. He said he did not believe that confessions were extracted from people in Northern Ireland by wrongful methods. I understand that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State said in Belfast last night that he was absolutely delighted that the Bennett report had vindicated the Northern Ireland police. I do not know whether my right hon. Friend can read, but that is certainly not my reading of the Bennett report. Nor is it the reading by the press throughout the United Kingdom.

For instance, The Guardian today would seem to suggest that the draconian emergency powers that we are discussing are unnecessary. In an attempt to justify these powers, the attitude, even in Britain, is this:"We accept that it is fair, especially when it is enunciated by someone such as the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland. Whether or not he says it aloud, he means ' Look at the terrible acts the IRA are committing. We are entitled to hold on to powers such as these. Even if they affect many innocent people, at the end of the day we are always assured of getting someone who has been involved in acts of terrorism '."

My idea of the law of the United Kingdom is that the greatest defence and protection must at all times be afforded to people who have not been involved in acts of terrorism or criminal conduct. I accept that there has been a dramatic lowering of standards in Northern Ireland, especially by those involved in the judicial system. The concept of the British judicial system has crashed to the ground in Northern Ireland as a result of this legislation.

One paragraph in the Bennett report refers to the acceptability of the police. It says that in the implementation of laws such as these the police must at all times act with a fairness that can be readily seen, especially in a community which is divided as that in Northern Ireland. It also says that if the police force oversteps its legal position in an attempt to gain confessions to enable it to bring a person before the courts, that builds up further bitterness and division within that community.

Today my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary went out of his way to congratulate the police forces involved in the fight against terrorism. With few qualifications, he will know what I am speaking about. I refer to some of the special branch officers, especially at Liverpool, who seem to take great delight in arresting, checking and detaining persons when that would seem to be unnecessary. That happens in a small number of cases. However, as yet I have neither heard nor read that the police force in the United Kingdom beats up suspects because of the Prevention of Terrorism Acts. That charge has never been made. I agree, with slight reservations, with my right hon. Friend. My objections to the existence of this legislation are not supplemented by making an attack on the police in Great Britain.

I realise that I may be placing my right hon. Friend in a difficulty as I see my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland sitting beside him. However, I hope that my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary does not include all the police in the United Kingdom in the congratulations that he expressed. There are cases involving the Northern Ireland special branch in Castlereagh in which truth is no longer necessary. It is understood by people all over the world that those men have overstepped their position and have used ill treatment.

The semantic argument on police interrogation in some of these documents is interesting. We are now trying to draw a distinction. We examined this matter eight or nine years ago. It was discussed in Europe when the Irish Government brought a case against the United Kingdom on the grounds of ill treatment or brutality. Learned legal men argued whether it was maltreatment or ill treatment. It is mentioned again in the Bennett report. The whole world fully understands what are the objections. People in Northern Ireland are arrested and interrogated under the Prevention of Terrorism Acts and the Northern Ireland (Emergency Provisions) Act. They are subjected to ill treatment at the interrogation centre of Castlereagh.