Prevention of Terrorism Debate (MR. Speaker's Ruling)

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons am 12:00 am ar 21 Mawrth 1979.

Danfonwch hysbysiad imi am ddadleuon fel hyn

Photo of Mr Merlyn Rees Mr Merlyn Rees , Leeds South 12:00, 21 Mawrth 1979

The point is that when I look at this, whether it is for extension or for exclusion, I see all the evidence that is available. All the evidence is given to the advisers. That is the way it is done. That is the only way in which it can be done, because I am advised by the advisers. However, if my hon. Friend has a particular point, I shall willingly look at it.

I turn to Lord Shackleton's report. Hon. Members will recall that during the discussion on the renewal of this Act in 1977, I said that I would consider ways in which we might look at the operation of the Act to see how it was working in practice. In December 1977, I announced that I had appointed Lord Shackleton to conduct this review with the following terms of reference—and it is important that the terms of reference are recalled: Accepting the continuing need for legislation against terrorism, to assess the operation of the Prevention of Terrorism (Temporary Provisions) Acts 1974 and 1976, with particular regard to the effectiveness of this legislation and its effect on the liberties of the subject, and to report. I should like to express my thanks to Lord Shackleton and to pay tribute to him for his hard work in producing a most fair and comprehensive report. I know that he visited all parts of the country and looked at police cells. He did a most comprehensive job on behalf of this House.

In his report, which was published last August, Lord Shackleton discusses in detail each of the powers in the Act and comes to the general conclusion that while the threat from terrorism continues, the powers in the Act, subject to certain amendments that he proposes, cannot be dispensed with. That is a view that I share. Lord Shackleton made a number of recommendations aimed primarily at ameliorating the effects that the Act has on civil liberties. I can inform the House that I can accept almost all of his recommendations. I should like to deal with them.

I turn first to the recommendation in relation to section 11. This is the recommendation that I have not been able to accept. Section 11 makes it an offence to withhold information about acts of terrorism, and the recommendation is that it should be allowed to lapse. Lord Shackleton was unhappy about the implications of this section, which he described as having and unpleasant ring about it in terms of civil liberties ". He pointed out that the section had been little used in Great Britain, perhaps because of the difficulties of proof, and that it might be used to bring pressure to bear on a person in detention.

The House will recall that section 11 was included in the 1976 Act as a result of an Amendment tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for Islington, South and Finsbury (Mr. Cunningham). The arguments for and against the provision were finely balanced, but after a thorough debate my predecessor and the House were persuaded that its inclusion was right and necessary.

I have given careful consideration to the question of section 11, in the light of Lord Shackleton's recommendations, but I have also considered very carefully what was said in this House and the way in which section 11 appeared on the statute book. It did not come originally from the Home Office. In my considered view, it is too early to make a final judgment in regard to this section, particularly since the police have used it in their complex investigations into the recent bombing incidents. I am convinced that in the face of a renewed campaign in this country it would be wrong now to deprive them of this power.

If the Act is renewed for a further 12 months, the Government will look again at section 11 in a year's time. What influenced me was the way in which this section got on to the statute book. Of course, I took into account what Lord Shackleton said, but I also had to take into account the fact that this section has been of the greatest importance in recent bombing events. As Home Secretary, I could not ignore that, whatever was said about it in the Shackleton report.

Speaker

The Speaker is an MP who has been elected to act as Chairman during debates in the House of Commons. He or she is responsible for ensuring that the rules laid down by the House for the carrying out of its business are observed. It is the Speaker who calls MPs to speak, and maintains order in the House. He or she acts as the House's representative in its relations with outside bodies and the other elements of Parliament such as the Lords and the Monarch. The Speaker is also responsible for protecting the interests of minorities in the House. He or she must ensure that the holders of an opinion, however unpopular, are allowed to put across their view without undue obstruction. It is also the Speaker who reprimands, on behalf of the House, an MP brought to the Bar of the House. In the case of disobedience the Speaker can 'name' an MP which results in their suspension from the House for a period. The Speaker must be impartial in all matters. He or she is elected by MPs in the House of Commons but then ceases to be involved in party politics. All sides in the House rely on the Speaker's disinterest. Even after retirement a former Speaker will not take part in political issues. Taking on the office means losing close contact with old colleagues and keeping apart from all groups and interests, even avoiding using the House of Commons dining rooms or bars. The Speaker continues as a Member of Parliament dealing with constituent's letters and problems. By tradition other candidates from the major parties do not contest the Speaker's seat at a General Election. The Speakership dates back to 1377 when Sir Thomas Hungerford was appointed to the role. The title Speaker comes from the fact that the Speaker was the official spokesman of the House of Commons to the Monarch. In the early years of the office, several Speakers suffered violent deaths when they presented unwelcome news to the King. Further information can be obtained from factsheet M2 on the UK Parliament website.

amendment

As a bill passes through Parliament, MPs and peers may suggest amendments - or changes - which they believe will improve the quality of the legislation.

Many hundreds of amendments are proposed by members to major bills as they pass through committee stage, report stage and third reading in both Houses of Parliament.

In the end only a handful of amendments will be incorporated into any bill.

The Speaker - or the chairman in the case of standing committees - has the power to select which amendments should be debated.