Part of the debate – in the House of Commons am 12:00 am ar 20 Rhagfyr 1973.
No, I do not think that. There are enough to go round. We are sorry to lose some of the very experienced town clerks, and so on, but there are still a good number of well experienced ones left to undertake the reorganised local government.
I was dealing with the question of the phrases and words used by my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer. I was pointing out that local government has considerable control over what the taxpayer pays. As right hon. and hon. Members know, the rate support grant is divided into three factors—the domestic element, the resources element and the needs element. The domestic element has been this year a reduction of the rate poundage in any area by 6p. We have said that next year it will be 10p, and on top of that a variable domestic element—variable geographically—given to those authorities who will lose by reduction in resources element or by an increase in the cost of water and sewerage.
This means that the taxpayer comes in as a ratepayer to the extent of that domestic element whether it is 6p or 10p or 10p-plus and comes in at the rate poundage which the local authority chooses to charge. So the local authority has considerable control over what it gets out of the taxpayer on the domestic element. Not only that, but the resources element is taken as the amount by which one local authority falls below a standard line for the country nationally, and by that amount it falls below, again, the Government—that is to say the taxpayer—comes in as a ratepayer at the rate poundage which the local authority chooses to charge.
It was very reasonable, then, for my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer to say that local authorities should realise their responsibility in keeping down their expenditure for which they have to call for rates. Indeed, if there were irresponsible local authorities to any great number I would have thought it would be necessary for any Government to reconsider the trend of global grants—rate support grant—and, perhaps, turn the trend round and go back to specific grants and say "If you wish to spend money on this subject or that subject we shall contribute a certain percentage of that but not leave you discretion on which to calculate your expenditure". I hope we shall not do that. I hope we shall still leave discretion to the local authorities to decide in a responsible way what their expenditure should be and what their needs are from the taxpayer and the ratepayer.
The hon. Member for Small Heath produced a set of figures which had been supplied to him, he said, by the Association of Municipal Corporations, and on those figures he came to the conclusion that the Government had failed to take into account a sum of £164 million, and that there was a shortfall to that extent. The hon. Member for Manchester, Gorton (Mr. Marks) came rather to the same concluison.
What we are talking about here is the amount of increase in costs during a certain period of time and the increase of costs to local government expenditure. We apply to that the same percentages as applied to the main settlement with the result that 60 per cent. will be contributed by the taxpayer and 40 per cent. by the ratepayer, and the ratepayer will have to pay that 40 per cent. calculated on these figures perfectly correctly. When I say "correctly" I am not being rude to the local authorities in any way, but these are the figures which were agreed between the officials of my Department and the officials of the Association of Municipal Corporations. The ratepayer will contribute to this increase a sum of £164 million, being the 40 per cent., or, taking the earlier years, 42 per cent.; the taxpayer will contribute the rest. This is really not a shortfall but application of the normal procedures to the rate support grant.