Orders of the Day — Emergency Powers

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons am 12:00 am ar 18 Rhagfyr 1973.

Danfonwch hysbysiad imi am ddadleuon fel hyn

Photo of Mr Robert Carr Mr Robert Carr , Mitcham 12:00, 18 Rhagfyr 1973

As are all Home Secretaries on these occasions, I am in a difficulty because, although the Home Secretary of the day is responsible for the making of emergency regulations, his right hon. and hon. Friends in other Departments are responsible for using them. It is a difficult if not impossible task for a Home Secretary to reply to questions that concern the Department of Trade and Industry and other Departments, so I hope the House will be reasonably tolerant with me.

In reply to the question asked by the hon. Member for Gloucestershire, West (Mr. Loughlin), my hon. Friend the Minister for Industry, who has been listening, tells me that earlier this evening he signed an order which allows private generators to be used in industry and commerce with their normal allocation of oil but with no extra allocation. I hope that will help the hon. Gentleman and many other hon. Members who have not spoken tonight but have had similar worries about firms in their constituencies.

The hon. Member for West Ham, North (Mr. Arthur Lewis) and my hon. Friend the Member for Isle of Thanet (Mr. Rees-Davies) addressed themselves to Regulation 21. I do not want to appear to ride out on a technicality but, in making my statement last week about the renewal of these regulations, I went out of my way to point out that although there had not been time to remove from the regulations certain of these matters, many of them were now covered in the Fuel and Electricity (Control) Act, which Parliament has just passed, and that my right hon. Friend would operate in these areas under that Act and not under the emergency regulations. Therefore, strictly speaking, the matters to which the two hon. Members object, or wish to be included, come not under the regulations but under the Act. I repeat that I am the Home Secretary and not the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry, and I hope that hon. Members will forgive me for not having answered their points in detail.

My hon. Friend the Under-Secretary of State for Trade and Industry listened to all that the hon. Member for West Ham, North had to say, and I know that he will take it seriously. The object of having powers at a time of difficulty is to try to ensure that priority users are satisfied. It is not always easy to succeed, but that is one of the objects of having these powers.

I accept that paraffin oil is a most important material for many people, and that for many poorer people it is a vital commodity. I understand that, generally, the supply has been fairly good but that there are some areas, including certain parts of London and East Anglia, where the supply has been difficult. I have been told that I can assure the House that my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary of State for Trade and Industry will do everything he can to improve the supply in areas where there has been difficulty. The same powers exist for paraffin as those which exist for petrol. I am sure that the House will forgive me for not being able to give a figure. If there is any evidence of profiteering my right hon. Friend would like to know about it. He has powers to take action.

I turn to the wider issues which were raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Isle of Thanet (Mr. Rees-Davies). I accept that he takes a strong view and that he has strong arguments for the view which he takes. I can assure him that my right hon. Friend's decision has nothing to do with morals. He is not seeking to obstruct one form of activity and to encourage another or at least not to obstruct another on the basis of morals. Rightly or wrongly, he has acted on the basis of the need to conserve fuel of all kinds and to do so in a way which, as far as possible, is acceptable to the public.

The Government have taken the view that floodlighting, per se, should be banned. Floodlighting is a fairly large user of electric power. It is used, by and large, for sports which, in the past, have been daylight sports, or which can be daylight sports. We have taken the view, at a time of a fuel shortage and a need to restrict the use of electricity, that floodlighting should not be used to enable sports to continue which, by their nature, are traditionally conducted or could be conducted in daylight.

I accept that there is an argument that those people who have generators and have accumulated fuel for a long time should be able to use it. However, a difficult issue of judgment arises. We have felt—and I accept that this is a matter of judgment—that it would be offensive to many people—for example, housewives restricted in the use of electricity and people working nearby who are restricted in the number of hours that they can work—to see floodlighting used for sports activities, no matter what the source.

I accept that it is a difficult decision, but it was on the basis which I have described and not on a moral judgment on the superiority and desirability of some forms of activity and the moral inferiority of others, such as greyhound racing that the matter was decided.

I accept that many activities cannot go on except indoors. It would be wrong to imagine that they have escaped restrictions. They are restricted in the amount of heating which they can use. It is not true to say that they have escaped. They are not being allowed to continue for a moral reason. They are being allowed to continue under restriction. They are using less power than hitherto. That is because we believe that it is important for society, as far as possible, to have open to it its traditional forms of activity and leisure. We believe that these other activities can be conducted in daylight without using scarce power.