Orders of the Day — Northern Ireland Constitution (Amendment) Bill

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons am 12:00 am ar 13 Rhagfyr 1973.

Danfonwch hysbysiad imi am ddadleuon fel hyn

Photo of Ian Paisley Ian Paisley Leader of the Democratic Unionist Party 12:00, 13 Rhagfyr 1973

It is clear to me that the hon. Gentleman has not really read it. The words to which we object are the words "without prejudice". It says that the laws passed by the parliament are without prejudice the law for the whole country. That is what is obnoxious to the people of Northern Ireland, and that is why we want Articles 2 and 3 removed. Unionists have always opposed both those articles because they stand or fall together. It is not right to say that it is just Article 2 to which we take objection.

I want to be fair to the Southern politicians. They could not remove those two articles. The Prime Minister of the Republic could not say at Sunningdale "We shall change the Constitution". He could promise to submit it to the electorate, but he would not have authority to change it. Everyone should know that.

There are two other matters which this House should remember. The first of them concerns extradition. We have heard a great of talk about murder. No one in this House honestly believes that members of the RUC or other witnesses from Northern Ireland would be safe going to a court in the Republic in order to give evidence against a person charged with an alleged IRA crime. This House changed the law of Northern Ireland so that witnesses did not even need to be called in the new courts in Northern Ireland. If it is felt unwise to call witnesses in our own courts, how can we say that they may be called in the Republic when IRA men are being tried? That was the argument put from the Government Front Bench in Committee. Even the Attorney-General told us that. We were told that witnesses are so intimidated in Northern Ireland that their statements can be taken and they need not appear in court.

We have been told that we need not worry—that IRA murderers will be tried in Southern Ireland. We are concerned not only with murderers, but with firearms offences and explosives. They are not even mentioned. We used to be able to extradite people who had committed murders which had no political overtones. Now we cannot even do that. This proposal applies to all murderers. That is in the Sunningdale agreement. One needs to read that important document very carefully. Every Member from Northern Ireland should study it closely. The machinery proposed in it will affect the lives of everybody in Northern Ireland if the Council of Ireland comes into effect. That is a serious matter.

The order that we are to pass later excludes Schedules 2 and 3. Schedule 3 deals with the establishment, organisation and control of the Royal Ulster Constabulary and any other police force, the police authority for Northern Ireland and traffic wardens. We should notice carefully that it includes the police authority. That is an exempted matter. The police authority is to be negotiated by the new Ulster Executive and the Council of Ireland, but that would be completely contrary to the order that we are to be asked to pass tonight. When will the Minister deliver another order to vary Schedule 3? That is an important matter.

We were told in the White Paper—it does not really matter as evidently it is to be torn up; it is only a scrap of paper now—that Members of the Assembly would have the right to serve on the police authority. That was clearly promised. That again was taken away at Sunningdale. Instead of the Assembly, only the Executive is to have a say, in consultation with the Council of Ireland and Ministers from the South. Apparently 264,000 voters in Northern Ireland are to have no say, yet Ministers from a hostile Republic are. We can now say in this House that the Republic has been hostile. How many warrants have the RUC tried to serve in Southern Ireland and how many have been refused? We know the reason. A High Court, judge has stated that murder is a political offence and that we cannot extradite murderers, or alleged murderers, to use the proper term, because no man is guilty until the offence is proved against him. Extradition was not dealt with at the Sunningdale talks.

This House must not bluff or allow itself to think that detention without trial in Northern Ireland is over. Detention without trial is only just beginning in Northern Ireland. Why should the authorities want to enlarge the cages, the prisons, if they are going to wind down internment? We do not go in and out of these prisons with our eyes closed. We see new compounds being built. The British Government have an obligation to provide proper prisons. It is a disgrace to have men behind wires. Putting men behind wires, into cages, has a psychological effect on them.

I was opposed to internment even when the Protestants were for it. I can say that because I have been consistent. But the Protestants will be going in, too. They are being lined up. For all I know, this speaker will be going in with the rest. [Laughter.] Hon. Members may laugh.

The British Government have threatened the people of Northern Ireland with economic sanctions because their leaders refuse to bow to something that they do not like. Often if something is widely accepted, then it is the law. But this is not widely accepted. If I demonstrate to the House that it is not widely accepted, what will be done? Another little Bill will be brought in deleting that part. So it will go on and on.