Orders of the Day — Northern Ireland Constitution (Amendment) Bill

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons am 12:00 am ar 13 Rhagfyr 1973.

Danfonwch hysbysiad imi am ddadleuon fel hyn

Photo of Mr Frank McManus Mr Frank McManus , Fermanagh and South Tyrone 12:00, 13 Rhagfyr 1973

My hon. Friend is a noted champion of democracy. Perhaps I may take him back to something in which he was involved recently, although I may be getting a little off the point. Recently my hon. Friend called for the removal of a judge, properly appointed, in this country. He did not say by what he would replace the judge. He said, "Get rid of the judge." I think that is fair reply to my hon. Friend.

However, I come to the communiqué from which the debate has sprung. First, the Sunningdale communiqué, so-called, is in effect, from one point of view, a rubber stamp. It may not be widely known in the House, but it has reached my ears on fair authority, that the business of this House for today was already prearranged, before Sunningdale took place. It therefore appears to me that the Prime Minister, or the Secretary of State at least, had a fair idea that out of Sunningdale there would come a communiqué. If that is so, I suggest that Sunningdale was merely a rubber stamping of an agreement which had already been arrived at.

A noted scholar, who is well informed on the business of conflict research, which is in the news now, recently pointed out that what happened at Sunningdale, in effect, was a reasonable example of the disorientation method. The method is to get them together, keep them together, entertain them well, deprive them of sleep; if one committee does not do the trick, break up that committee and reform it. Keep them together till they are confused and ready to agree to almost anything. I am not suggesting that my hon. Friend the Member for Belfast, West (Mr. Fitt) was terribly confused at the end of the day. I am merely recounting to the House that it is a possible interpretation that when one cuts people off from even the Press for a fairly prolonged time, at the end of the day they are more likely to agree to what is presented to them.

It has been presented as a package deal. That is the language of the Government. Therefore, it is very fair and reasonable, if it is a package deal, to ask "What is in it for us?" If that is the language in which it is to be presented, it is only reasonable to examine it for what is in it for us. The SDLP, the party which is led by my hon. Friend the Member for Belfast, West, was negotiating, we are told, on behalf of the Catholic, or minority, community. Therefore, in effect, we are asking what the SDLP gets out of this package deal. The answer, I fear, is a grave disappointment to the people whom it claims to represent.

We were told that there were no winners and no losers; everybody taking part had a little to give and a little to get. The question therefore arises: what did the side with which I am concerned, the SDLP, give? The answer is that it gave the only thing it had to give. All it had in its power to give was its consent to co-operate with the British Government to run this new deal.

While it withheld its consent it was in a bargaining position, because the British Government made it clear on a number of occasions that unless there was a wide base—in other words, unless there was considerable Catholic participation in an executive—an executive could not and would not be formed, and on 30th March next year the British Government would have had to make an agonising reappraisal of their entire policy towards Northern Ireland. I thought that that was a very good position in which to be. The SDLP had it in its power to prevent the creation of an Executive if it stuck it out. If it went into negotiations, the end result of which ought to be a package deal, then if it dug in its heels it was likely to get a good deal.

That is the level at which the negotiations were cast. A bit of horse-trading went on at Sunningdale; everybody received a little and everybody gave a little. It appears to me that the party which my hon. Friend the Member for Belfast, West leads gave the only thing that it had to give, and we are bound to ask what it received in return. Loyalist Members opposite have said what their people received, or did not receive. My hon. Friend the Member for Mid-Ulster also had thoughts on this subject. I would confine my remarks to what, in my opinion, the minority people whom I represent have gained.

We are to get a Council of Ireland. I do not think anybody, certainly no one on the minority side, objects to the Council of Ireland. It is a very nice idea. It is a very interesting notion that people from the North and South come together and begin to discuss their problems. What are the powers of this Council of Ireland? Or is it to be merely a talking shop? A number of steps led up to this conclusion. The steps by which the SDLP gave its consent ought to be recorded, because underneath the barrage of propaganda to sell this deal there is a danger that they will be lost sight of.

At the beginning it was said that there would be no talks till internment ended and the party was very firm, very committed, to that stance. The stance was changed when an election was announced, or shortly before it, and it then said, "We are going forward to be elected to sit at a conference table." It said, "Dear voters, it will be nothing but a conference table and nothing will be given till the contentious issues of internment and policing are satisfactorily resolved." Then an arrangement was arrived at, and it was said, "Set up the mechanics of the Executive but do not agree to anything till all is settled." Then came Sunningdale, and then came final agreement.

The first point that has been picked out of Sunningdale is the Council of Ireland. The Loyalists tell us that it gives offence to them. If the future Minister of Community Relations is to be believed, he said in Strabane the other night, "If Craig and Paisley are complaining a lot about it, then it must be good for us." That is good non-sectarian conversation from a future Minister of Community Relations. I am sure that he will do the job very well, if that is how he begins.

A strange thing happened the other day in my constituency. Hot on the heels of the announcement of the Council of Ireland the British Government, through the agency of the British Army, started to build a wall along the border. They put big dragons' teeth and spikes and all manner of obstructions along the border—not exactly on the border, and in some places a quarter of a mile inside it. The local people know that they are not effective security arrangements and the local men and the Army who are putting them up told the local people that it is a lot of nonsense but they had to do their job. It is obvious that these arrangements are merely to annoy the local community, and to satisfy somebody somewhere that there is an effective security operation. It jars a little on those who would have us interpret the Council of Ireland as a step towards a united Ireland.

What is the point of announcing a Council of Ireland one day and then redefining the border another day by starting to build a wall? There are a number of mini-Berlin walls standing now right along the border. Are we to look forward to the day when there will be one continuous wall in the North of Ireland?

The common law enforcement area is to be preceded by the re-enactment of the law of 1861, about which hon. and learned Gentlemen were speaking earlier—