Part of the debate – in the House of Commons am 12:00 am ar 13 Rhagfyr 1973.
I accept that correction from the hon. Member for Armagh (Mr. Maginnis), who is an expert in that kind of distinction. Certainly there are those who, a few years ago, did not see much difference between the Orange Order and the Unionist Party, and I number myself among them. I welcome the fact that there are these differences inside that organisation. Any organisation without differences of this kind is not a healthy one.
I have argued long for political initiatives to try to replace violence. For that reason I welcome these present initiatives and the outcome of most of them. I thought, and still think, that it was a great pity that some members of the minority opinions did not participate in these political discussions and initiatives at an earlier stage. We might have had a different picture than that which we see at present.
I also welcome the return to elections. We strove for, and achieved, that state of affairs. However, I should like to see much freer elections. I am conscious that it would be almost impossible for some of my hon. Friends to canvass the Shankill and for some hon. Members opposite to canvass Falls Road. Until such time as we get free elections, we talk about elections with our tongues in our cheeks. There are problems to overcome. I have been observing some elections in Northern Ireland recently. Before we see free electioneering, campaigning and canvassing of the kind that takes place in my own constituency but does not occur in the constituencies of hon. Members opposite who sneer at my remarks, we shall not have free elections in the true sense. I should like to see a move towards freer elections of the kind that we know on this side of the water.
Finally, I welcome the Council of Ireland. It has drawbacks. There are snags. There will be difficulties. However, those of us who remember earlier days and the modest demands that were made then must give credit where it is due in saying how we welcome what has happened along the road.
Having said that, I do not believe that there will be any real progress towards permanent solutions until we end internment—full stop. We cannot play about with it. I have always objected to the policy of using detainees or internees of whichever community as political hostages. We have to say that internment will be ended, and a date for its end must be set.
There will never be permanent peace until there is a sign that one day the British commitment will be ended. That has to be said, and that will have to happen. I know that it will be difficult, but it has to be felt by both communities. That matter is on the agenda.
We should remove flashpoints and areas of possible tension between ourselves and the people of both communities in Northern Ireland. We should not erect new flashpoints; we should take them away. I fear that we are erecting quite a number of flashpoints because of the way that we treat prisoners. I have asked a number of questions in the House about prisoners of all denominations currently serving sentences either here or in Northern Ireland. By our treatment of them we are not helping to ease, but are perpetuating, a situation that should be quietened down.
In this context I should like to refer to what some people would call torture. Hon. Members may have seen a programme on television recently which illustrated the various forms of torture being used against prisoners in a number of countries in the Western world. I think that forcible feeding of the kind that I have been reading about lately is a torturous process in anybody's language.
In a parliamentary answer that I was given this week I was told that 25 prisoners have been forcibly fed in British gaols since January this year. This process is being used against prisoners who have gone on hunger strike because their demands or requests to be transferred to Northern Ireland have been refused. Such requests are not outrageous. I am not condoning the crimes committed by these prisoners, but we have already sentenced them to life imprisonment and terms of 20 years. I think that is quite enough. What more do we want? Why do we put them in almost constant solitary confinement and force-feed them by these inhuman methods?
We shall not remove any flashpoints while this treatment continues and the Maze, Long Kesh and Armagh remain in being. Unless we do something about these matters, flashpoints will not be erased, but erected.
The Government, who have been intransigent and proved wrong on so many things, ought to look at these matters before it is too late. They have a new broom in the person of the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland. I suggest that he begins to sweep clean and says that we will end internment and agree to transfers in both directions. I understand that it is all right to transfer prisoners from Northern Ireland to this country. I understand and appreciate the motives. I do not object to that. However, I believe that the transfer should be two ways. That would help to remove yet another flashpoint. If this new broom would begin by sweeping that slate clean we would probably remove some of the flashpoints that otherwise will become bigger and far outweigh the gains that have been made on the political initiative. I hope that the Secretary of State will take note of those points.