Part of the debate – in the House of Commons am 12:00 am ar 13 Rhagfyr 1973.
I was saying that Ulster is part of the United Kingdom, and we are all as much a part of the United Kingdom as is the hon. Lady. We should not keep looking back on the mistakes we may have made. We are here today because a small minority of terrorists have caused the abolition of Stormont. We should be looking forward to the future of Northern Ireland rather than constantly looking back.
Terrorism in Northern Ireland has resulted in the deaths of over 200 of our soldiers, in a great deal of damage to property and also in loss of civilian lives. It is against that background that we should look at how the present arrangements are working and what benefit they can bring to the Province.
I congratulate my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland on his appointment. I wish to thank him for the efficient arrangements that were made when a delegation of which I was part went to the Province to see for ourselves some of the difficulties with which the Ulster people were faced.
We are today discussing the final devolution of power as dealt with in Part II of the Act. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State was correct to say that any possible settlement in the Province must consist of two elements: first, the eradication of terrorism; and, secondly, a political formula that is capable of working.
I turn my attention first to the Assembly. I believe that the Assembly tan be made to work if the people of Ireland realise that this is the last chance they will have of a Parliament which is elected and which must work. I was alarmed to read in the Press about the antics of the Members of the Assembly who did their best to make sure that the first session was suspended. They must realise that their Assembly is as much a parliament as it the House of Commons, and they should conduct their affairs in a similar manner. I hope that all the Members of the Assembly will forget their petty differences and join in an endeavour to make the Constitution work. I am sure that this is the only possibility open to them. After all, three parties are now working together, and if they continue to co-operate they can formulate a policy which can only be for the betterment of the Province.
I should like to say a few words about the Council of Ireland. The co-operation in that respect is largely of an economic nature. I do not attach tremendous importance to the registration of assurances about the North deposited with the United Nations. In practice, what it means is that no form of unification can take place without the whole-hearted consent of the people of Northern Ireland. But it is the wholehearted consent that matters rather than registration in the United Nations. We all know what happened to former registrations registered with the old League of Nations.
What has come out of the Sunningdale agreement is far more fundamental and important. For the first time there is an attempt between South and North to reach some sort of co-operation. I agree that this is a small step towards the final end we would like to see.
I should like at this point to refer to security. This problem involves two countries with a long border over which there has been a lack of co-operation between the two police forces. At times there has probably been less co-operation between the Garda and the RUC than possibly between the members of the international police. Interpol probably has closer relationships among its members in the apprehension of criminals than do the police forces in the North and the South of Ireland.
I should like to put forward the idea of co-operation at officer level between one police force and another, with each policeman determined to catch and then try anybody who uses force to attain his ends. We must realise how extremely difficult it is to check people travelling between South and North in terms of the number of vehicles that pass daily between the two countries. The only way to apprehend wrongdoers is by a close liaison between the two police forces. This can be done by getting information in sufficient time to enable people to be caught before they have the opportunity to commit an offence.
It has been found necessary to invoke an Act of 1861 which is far from perfect. But the people of Northern Ireland are looking for results. If it can be seen that as a result of the agreement more offenders are apprehended and action is taken by the South, people will begin to realise that there is some benefit in having a Council of Ireland. They would rather look to practicalities than to theories. They will not necessarily be looking to the Act of 1861 to see how it operates.
In the final analysis it would be easier for extradition to be implemented because there are so many legal problems involved. It may be difficult for the Southern Irish Government to pass the necessary legislation on extradition, but this does not prevent them co-operating at a lower level since such co-operation can be of great significance. I do not want to elaborate on the provisions of the 1861 Act, but the fact is that this involves members of the Armed Forces having to give evidence in courts of law, and this could give rise to considerable security difficulties and other problems. The judges in Eire might not look with favour on a situation in which members of our Armed Forces were required to give evidence in obtaining a conviction. I hope that as time passes the co-operation between the two forces will become so good that apprehension will be made much easier. It is up to the South to show its good intentions. The Southern Irish have signed the agreement, and it is up to them to help us as much as possible in the apprehension of criminals.
I wish to pay a special tribute to the members of the Armed Forces who have been in Northern Ireland in very difficult conditions and have maintained control over terrorism to such an extent as to enable the parties to reach agreement. I am convinced that without their help this state of comparative quiescence could not have been achieved.
I make one point on behalf of our troops. It is to ask whether we ought not to look into the period of service required and the leave entitlement of our forces. I found their morale to be very high. I was especially honoured to be able to go to my former regiment, which is stationed in the Province, C Squadron of the Royal Horse Guards Dragoons, Blues and Royals. They are serving a 16-week period, and their morale is very high. They have as full a task as any regiment is called upon to perform in war, and sometimes even fuller. In my view, we ought to look carefully at whether those serving in Northern Ireland should continue to be regarded as serving in the United Kingdom. If it is at all possible, some form of additional leave should be granted to them. I know there are considerable difficulties in this, but I ask the Government to look into the possibility.
We ought also to consider whether we cannot back up the RUC with some form of regular battalion. Obviously, we have to look carefully to ensure that in the future the Army and the police continue to co-operate. Every one of us wants to see the Army withdrawn as quickly as possible. However, that state of affairs cannot come about until co-operation between the police forces north and south of the border is so complete that it is no longer necessary to have soldiers in the Province.
I believe that the fears of many of the community that possibly this might be the first step towards a union between the North and South are unfounded. I am certain that the words printed in the Alliance newspaper are probably a better reflection. It says:
There is no question of agreeing to anything which in any way undermines the constitutional position of Northern Ireland as part of the United Kingdom.
In my view, we cannot stress that too hard. I will concede to the hon. Member for Mid-Ulster that there are people who do not appreciate that the position has not changed, that they are still part of the United Kingdom and will remain so until a referendum has been conducted. If they can be made to appreciate that, many of the fears of extremists on both sides can be allayed.
It has been a very long chapter. But the co-operation between the political parties in Northern Ireland may in the future give rise to a complete realignment of politics in the Province. After all, we have two parties fundamentally different working together in the Government.
I suggest that we may see a change and reorientation of politics in elections to Westminster. I agree with my hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Down, South (Captain Orr), who said that we ought to be looking at the representation of the Province in this House. As hon. Members are aware, there are very large constituencies, and possibly this could, and ought to, be looked at. In this part of the United Kingdom we have just had our boundary changes. In the case of Northern Ireland I do not think it unreasonable to suggest that the Boundary Commission might sit separately and consider the representation of Northern Ireland in this House.
I am sure that we all want to see the end of terrorism and make the new Assembly and the new Constitution work. Only by making the political machine work properly shall we see the end of terrorism. Northern Ireland has a future, and all of us want to see prosperity in the Province and the complete termination of terrorism, which has existed for far too long.