Part of the debate – in the House of Commons am 12:00 am ar 13 Rhagfyr 1973.
There is one matter which I should like to mention at the beginning of my speech, on which I think I shall carry all my friends from the Northern Ireland constituencies, and that is in the context of the statement by the Prime Minister today and of the mini-Budget which is expected from the Chancellor on Monday.
It seems to me that the Executive will be judged, at least partly, by the results that it is able to produce in the social and economic fields, by the provision of more jobs and houses, and by dealing effectively with social problems. Therefore, if it is to start in a climate of cutback industrially and cut-back in public expenditure, I hope that the Secretary of State will fight very hard indeed in his corner in the Cabinet to ensure that Northern Ireland gets special treatment. If the Executive has to operate against the background of a very considerable cut-back in public programmes and a very considerable cut-back in the industrial climate, it will have an even more difficult job to establish itself.
I want to look briefly at the Sunning-dale package, and it is essential to look at it together' with the Stormont package. We must not deceive ourselves—those packages hang together and must be looked at together. I am not scared of the Irish dimension, provided that I am not being pushed or chivvied in a certain direction. Therefore, I will judge the Sunningdale talks by three essential criteria. First, will the agreement enable Ulstermen to choose whether or not they will stay in the United Kingdom, without being pressurised in any direction? Secondly, what will be its effect upon the security situation on the ground in Northern Ireland? Will it produce results, particularly in the border areas, and will it deal with the terrorist? Thirdly, will it promote a new relationship, a partnership of common interest, between North and South without political strings?
The answer is not a simple one. On balance, my view is that the answer is in the affirmative, but there are a number of points which must be looked at very carefully. So I believe that the Sunningdale agreement is something which should be supported and welcomed as part of the general settlement, but there are many points which are still not yet determined. The agreement leaves open the hopes of those who wish to see a united Ireland, and gives safeguards to those of us who believe in the Union. I have referred to a number of very important issues which are left open for further examination and further action. But I think that, in practice, the agreement will operate in this way. The Council of Ireland will develop only at the pace at which results are produced in the security area, and those will both nudge forward in parallel and will not outstrip one another.
Those who wish to see a strong Council of Ireland will not see it unless there are substantial and effective results in dealing with terrorism. Only if results are achieved will one see the political will to breathe life into the institutions which are to be set up. Mr. Cosgrave gave a very good description of the agreement, when he said that it is
a working understanding at the centre, representing the united strength of the sensible elements in the whole of Ireland drawn from both communities and both traditions of allegiance.
But this is a very tender plant which will need a lot of nurturing and attention from both sides. While I do not agree with much of the reasoning of my hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Down, South (Captain Orr), in one of his most eloquent speeches he made a point with which I certainly identify—"identify" is a popular word in the communiqué. I certainly wish that there was greater warmth in the United Kingdom relationship—and I emphasise the word "warmth". A vital part of that warmth was increased representation in this House, but that is a missing element.
I should like to comment briefly on some of the detailed contents of the Sunningdale package. As regards recognition, I would like to have seen a change in Articles 2 and 3 of the Irish Constitution. But I acknowledge what has been done by the Southern Government, and that the declaration is to be lodged internationally, and I accept that that is a major step forward. But I would say to the Dail committee which is considering a new constitution that if it wishes to build a worthwhile relationship with the people in the North of Ireland it must in its new constitution avoid the claims in Articles 2 and 3, which to many of us are obnoxious. We must also look for greater activity against terrorists resulting from the conference. Again, I acknowledge that there has been a very considerable improvement in the climate since the coalition Government, and there was an improvement towards the end of Mr. Lynch's Government. But there is still a devil of a long way to go before we are operating in anything like the way that two civilised countries should be operating against terrorism. One will look for fairly speedy results in dealing with terrorism on a North-South basis.
Another area at which I want to look is the whole question of extradition and common law enforcement areas in relation to North and South. Again, one acknowledges that there has been some movement in dealing with murders, and there is to be a commission to study the new arrangements. This is a step forward, but people will want to see quick results. They will ask how long the commission will take to achieve results, and whether there will be a real political will to get at the criminal. I give the signatories of the agreement the benefit of the doubt, and say that I believe that they want the commission to succeed, but we look for speedy action.
I now come to the form and nature of the Council of Ireland. I believe in the Union, but I do not believe that the council is a one-way ticket to a united Ireland. People will look at whether it does a useful job of work, and whether it is able to deal effectively with common social and economic problems. One of the interesting aspects which has emerged over the last year is the personal relationship between politicians of different traditions which has developed through the Sunningdale and Stormont talks, and people will look at whether it can help to build a new and better climate.
I have a question about Clause 8 concerning the Council of Ireland. As I understand it, prior to the meeting in January there is to be an examination of the areas of "common interest" as they are called. Presumably this is to be done at a Civil Service level—I assume, by a joint working party. I asked my right hon. Friend about this earlier, and I believe he misunderstood me. As I understand it, this is to be done before the Council of Ireland is set up, rather than as part of the Council of Ireland arrangements.
I say to people in Northern Ireland that on balance I welcome and support the Sunningdale agreement. I say to those who believe in the Union, as I do, that it is not a sell-out but an important and fundamental basis of a working understanding. The pace of its development will depend on the benefits which it brings for the people. We are coming to the end of a long series of political activities in this House in relation to Ulster. We have seen developing the problem of the political wreckers who are determined to destroy and are unable to build. Whether in the Assembly or elsewhere, they are endeavouring to destroy the new political institutions.
People in Northern Ireland have suffered a tremendous amount. I believe they are prepared to give the new Excutive their support—perhaps not overwhelmingly—to see what results it can produce in creating a new political climate. The public will have very little patience with politicians who behave like hooligans. A situation could develop in which some 27 or 28 Assembly men who represent the Loyalist coalition, as it is called, are not involved in the political institutions. That would be a tragedy. We must not permit a situation to develop in the new political institutions where they become a permanently embittered group led, frankly, by people whose interest in their own political advancement is, I suspect, somewhat greater than their interest in the welfare of those they are supposed to represent. It is vitally important that members of the Executive take every opportunity to prevent them becoming a permanently embittered group.
The House will know that I have broadly supported the new political programme and proposals which have been before the House. Will the new arrangements work out? Can they be made to stick? These are questions for the future. I am a little surprised and pleased that things have been able to get so far. I am convinced that there is very great determination between the three parties making up the Executive to breathe life into the new institutions and make them work because they know the penalty for the people of Northern Ireland if everything comes crashing down.
I do not doubt that the new Executive will have a very tough time over the next six to 12 months. If it can show that the institutions work and bring tangible benefits, and if the people will identify with them, there will be a bonus at the end of that period when people see the benefit of the scheme for reconciliation which has been advanced.