Court Clerks (Status and Salaries)

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons am 12:00 am ar 12 Rhagfyr 1973.

Danfonwch hysbysiad imi am ddadleuon fel hyn

Photo of Mr Peter Crowder Mr Peter Crowder , Ruislip Northwood 12:00, 12 Rhagfyr 1973

I had a word with the hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington (Mr. Sandelson) on this subject. It is not a political matter. The hon. Member is a member of the Bar and I think I can say on his behalf, having discussed the matter with him, that in general terms he would agree with the few brief remarks I have to put.

I believe that this is both a general and a local problem. It is a local one in so far as it affects the difficulties which have to be resolved by the Middlesex Courts Committee. I assume that salaries are dealt with through a well-established negotiating machinery and that the special difficulties in London will be pursued through those channels.

Perhaps, apart from that, something may be done in London by the magistrates' courts committees collectively—perhaps, with Home Office help, to encourage the recruitment of school leavers. I hope that my hon. and learned Friend the Minister of State will be able to comment on that. For 14 years I have had the honour and privilege to sit as a deputy chairman or chairman of quarter sessions, or as a recorder, but always with a magistrate. Magistrates do their work for nothing. One can have nothing but admiration for the selfless and conscientious work they devote to justice in this country. But when they sit with me in the Crown courts or quarter sessions—always a different one every time—they say, "We are very fortunate in our clerk. He is so helpful and conscientious in every way that we could not do our job without his assistance."

If one were to ask a foreigner what he admired about this country, probably his first answer would be the monarchy and his second the majesty of the law and the administration of justice. It is something of which we are all justly proud and to which the whole world looks up. It is also something for which the public pays the very least. Enormous sums are paid over in fines every day, not only in magistrates' courts but in Crown courts. I do not know the figures, but the country seems to be getting something of which it is justly proud for practically nothing.

Under Section 1 of the 1967 Act, under which matters are committed from magistrates' courts to Crown courts without depositions being taken or evidence heard, a great responsibility naturally falls upon the clerks in giving advice. The evidence is read over and the magistrates do not have the opportunity of deciding not to commit. They rely on the clerk. If he bears such responsibility, he should be properly paid.

I believe that, as things go on, a higher qualification should be required of clerks, but they should be paid accordingly. Far from saving money and time, Section 1 of the 1967 Act has wasted more time and money than perhaps any other measure that has come before the House. Some cases that now come before Crown courts would never have arrived there but for that section. Therefore, a great responsibility rests upon the clerk who has to give advice. If the British people wish to maintain our system of justice and their pride in it, they should pay for it.