Orders of the Day — Defence Estimates

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons am 12:00 am ar 12 Rhagfyr 1973.

Danfonwch hysbysiad imi am ddadleuon fel hyn

Photo of Major-General Jack D'Avigdor-Goldsmid Major-General Jack D'Avigdor-Goldsmid , Lichfield and Tamworth 12:00, 12 Rhagfyr 1973

I thank my hon. Friend. On this side of the House we have to see that the defence budget is properly spent. I should like to think that this is one of the tasks which our Expenditure Committee has been endeavouring to do. This has been referred to by my hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Eye (Sir H. Harrison) and the hon. Member for Bishop Auckland (Mr. Boyden). I hope that we are helping in this matter.

With a limited defence budget, combined with increasing sophistication of equipment and rising prices, the emphasis must be to ensure that the fighting elements of the three Services are looked after and that any cuts are in the tail or on the administrative side.

Recently we have been with our committee to various places. We went to see RAF Strike Command. I was appalled to be told of our current weaknesses in operational aircraft and air defences. I was not the only one to feel that way. On a happier note, we learned that the reorganisation of RAF Strike Command had produced considerable savings in money and in manpower—savings of about £10 million a year and a reduction of about 1,400 mostly staff appointments. When we asked how the Royal Air Force had taken this change and what was its effect, we were told it had been to speed up the work rather than slow it down. That was very reassuring to hear.

We went to see the new Army set-up involving the United Kingdom land forces, again the subject of reorganisation. The old Command system has gone with a consequent saving in manpower and real estate. We visited a district headquarters, covering 13 counties, which had 8,000 regular soldiers supported by 9,000 civilians. Admittedly, among those 9,000 civilians was one fairly large central ordnance depot. But that figure did not compare favourably with the figures we got at RAF Strike Command, where 43,000 airmen were supported by only 8,000 civilians. As my hon. and gallant Friend said, we went to Canada and at their forces headquarters we received first-hand information on the progress of the unification of their three forces. Clearly, that is not something that we could attempt in Britain. It is not suitable to us. But there were lessons to be learned. We put feelers out here, to the effect that there should be some form of integration in the training of trades common to all three Services in order to save overheads. Although the feelers were put out there may have been certain facts which mitigated against further action—or it may be that the savings which would have been effected would have been small. At any rate, we had no further information on the subject.

This week we have examined the Jarrett Report—the report of the committee which has been examining the medical services of the forces. The committee was set up in April 1971 and it published its report this year. The report is now being considered by the Ministry of Defence. It was interesting to note that one of its recommendations coincided exactly with one that our committee made previously—that one of the main Service hospitals in Cyprus—there are two—should be given up. The Jarrett Committee agreed with us. Perhaps, in replying tonight my hon. Friend the Minister will be prepared to answer three questions. If he cannot reply tonight, perhaps he will do so later, in writing. The first applies to the Royal Armoured Corps Gunnery School at Lulworth, the subject of investigations by the Nugent Committee, which recommended that it should move to Castlemartin, despite vigorous protests from people in the Lulworth area, despite vigorous protests from people in the Castlemartin area, and despite vigorous protests from the Army authorities, starting with the Chief of General Staff. I should like to know whether we shall be overruled for the sake of a vociferous protest body.

Secondly, I should like to know whether, in this time of economy, any thought has been or is being given to a reduction in the size of the Ministry of Defence, considering how effective have been the reductions in RAF Strike Command. Thirdly, I should like to know whether we are going to hear anything about the recommendations that we have made in the past about the integration of trades training.