Orders of the Day — Defence Estimates

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons am 12:00 am ar 12 Rhagfyr 1973.

Danfonwch hysbysiad imi am ddadleuon fel hyn

Photo of Sir John Morris Sir John Morris , Aberafan 12:00, 12 Rhagfyr 1973

The hon. Gentleman will remember that our American allies argue that their burden of defence expenditure is in excess of that carried by other European countries. We can argue that our burden vis-à-vis our European partners should not be excessive.

When I was in the Ministry of Transport I chaired an inquiry into the financing of British Rail. The aim was to examine whether the service was carrying the right burden of expenditure on things such as pensions, museums, railway crossings, and so on, and to analyse the performance of British Rail. It was from that exercise, which I think I can describe as being highly successful, without being unduly modest, that there emerged much of the Transport Act 1968. That is the sort of basis on which I would like us to consider our correct defence budget.

We live in an era of economic adversity. No one would deny that, except perhaps the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry, who sees a crock of gold at the end of every rainbow. We believe that we must cut our coat according to our cloth. When we preached that philosophy in Government we were derided by the then Opposition. It was strange that in one of his first speeches the present Secretary of State for Defence accepted that philosophy.

In the last two months we have seen a number of kites being flown about projects in their early stages which might be axed. Are we to be told what is being considered in the defence review, which forms part of the review of public expenditure generally? I find it odd that the Minister was not able to reach a decision about the Navy Harriers. That has been shelved. I know of the rage there was m the Admiralty in July because the admirals failed to get their way. There are a number of such projects being canvassed in the national daily newspapers as being either at risk or in danger of being pushed to one side. The House and the Services should be told what these are. If there are to be cuts in public expenditure then defence must carry its proper share.

I turn now to the sad news we had a few days ago which came with the disclosure—without a word to the House—that the seven Westland Wasp helicopters were beginning to be delivered to South Africa. The last we heard of these matters was as far back as 22nd February 1971 when we were told that the Westland production line had been closed down. We all recall the traumatic experiences of the Foreign Secretary and the Government following their instant reaction in June and July 1970. Now we hear that three have been sent, without a word to the House, ready to take part in CAPEX, the joint British and South African naval exercise. I am told that it is a new exercise which is to be biennial.

We thought that the Government had learned their lesson. They nearly wrecked the Commonwealth Conference in 1971. Dependent as we are on Nigeria, among other countries, for oil, is this the time to throw this issue in Nigeria's face? Has there been consultation with Nigeria? If so, what reactions have there been in that country? Will the Government never learn? Whatever price they have to pay, they stubbornly continue with policies that have been condemned as outrageous by the Commonwealth and, indeed, by the world.

I endorse the congratulations that have been extended to our troops in Northern Ireland. Their gallantry and patience has been unparalleled. When I heard in the House on Monday the congratulations to individuals concerned in the Sunningdale talks, my mind went out to our troops who by their unenviable daily tasks have laid the foundation which has enabled the politicians to have time to reach a measure of agreement.

More than 200 of our men have paid the supreme price. Others have been injured. We have made arrangements for pensions to assist the families of those men who served so bravely in Northern Ireland. We send them our best wishes.

I hope that the Minister will recall the request I made in our last defence debate for a proper appraisal to be included in the next White Paper of the effects of service in Northern Ireland upon our Army and defences in Germany. When the cavalry and the armoured regiments are sent to serve in Northern Ireland they have to wrap up their tanks and prepare for service in Northern Ireland, and it is the best part of a year if not more before they return to their normal duties. That is probably why the cavalry regiments are not called upon so frequently as are other units to serve in Northern Ireland.

So far as security considerations allow, I hope that the Minister in his statement and in the White Paper will tell us as much as he can about the effect on our defences of service in Northern Ireland, especially when our troops are called upon to serve there for such long periods.

I am sure that the whole House will join me in sending our good wishes to all our troops wherever they serve, in particular to those who carry this enormous burden in Northern Ireland.