Orders of the Day — Channel Tunnel Bill

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons am 12:00 am ar 5 Rhagfyr 1973.

Danfonwch hysbysiad imi am ddadleuon fel hyn

Photo of Mr Graham Tope Mr Graham Tope , Sutton and Cheam 12:00, 5 Rhagfyr 1973

I beg to move, to leave out from "That" to the end of the Question and to add instead thereof: this House declines to give a Second Reading to a Bill which provides for substantial public expenditure and guarantees at a time when such large-scale projects should be reconsidered, which contains provisions that will exacerbate the long-term nature of the energy crisis, and which will cause widespread environmental disruption to South-East England. I am pleased to have the opportunity of congratulating the hon. Member for Edinburgh, North (Mr. Alexander Fletcher) on his maiden speech. It is still less than a year since I made my maiden speech, so I know only too well, and better than many hon. Members, how he must feel to have it behind him. Speaking as a London Member who does not take such a parochial attitude I am very much in agreement with the hon. Gentleman's remarks about a national transport policy and public inquiries. Perhaps there is some measure of agreement between us although we are on different sides of the House, and I look forward to hearing his words of wisdom on other occasions.

In the debate on the White Paper on 25th October I said that the Liberal Party supported in principle the concept of a Channel tunnel. As the Liberal Party has long advocated closer and better links with Europe I could hardly do otherwise. I also said that the Liberal Party could not accept particular proposals detailed in the Bill and that we favoured what has come to be known as the rail-only link. I gave the reasons in that debate and, inevitably, as the right hon. Member for Sheffield Park (Mr. Mulley) said, to some extent we are bound to repeat ourselves today. It is the concept of the "rolling motorway" to which we Liberals object. I appreciate that this concept comprises only part of the proposals, but it is the part to which we most object. Nothing that has come forward in the last six weeks has caused us to change our minds on this proposal and, indeed, subsequent events have confirmed this view.

The Liberal amendment details our three major objections to this Bill. The first relates to financial guarantees. In the debate on the Channel Tunnel White Paper in October hon. Members on both sides of the House questioned the need for such guarantees. The Minister for Transport Industries made no reference to this point when he replied to that debate. Therefore, I was grateful to the hon. Gentleman the Under-Secretary of State for today spelling out the Government's reasons for providing these guarantees. However, I am still not entirely convinced. If the figures produced by the economic consultants in terms of the high profit levels expected are correct, then there should be no need for guarantees. Surely the Government can declare their good faith without committing the taxpayer to a possible expenditure of as much as £500 million.

I wonder why there is any need for these guarantees. If the tunnel is expected to make such a profit why do we have to guarantee this investment? The project has been presented as a commercial investment. That is fair enough, and we have no objection to commercial interests being involved nor to their building the Channel Tunnel nor to their making a profit, provided that the profit is reasonable—but if the companies are to enter into this activity as a commercial matter, surely they should bear the risks involved.

If the Channel Tunnel were presented to us on social and environmental grounds—and those grounds exist—then there would be a justifiable argument for pro viding guarantees, but the case has not been made out on those grounds but on commercial grounds. We do not believe that at present those guarantees should be made to fall upon the taxpayer. Either the private forecasts which have been put forward are right, in which case there is no need for the guarantees, or those forecasts are wrong. If they are wrong we should be told in what way they are wrong.

It is misleading to suggest that at some time in the future we can withdraw from this project. Once the guarantees have been made they are just as binding as any clause in any treaty, and huge sums will have been committed. At a time when we are talking about cuts in public expenditure, we should consider the situation carefully before we embark on a scheme which will cost the taxpayer a considerable amount of money.

I turn to the energy question—which at present is exercising everybody's mind. It seems to me remarkable that it is only in the last two months that the Government have come even to consider the energy question in relation to this project, and to other projects which we are not debating today. This problem has been accentuated by recent events, but it existed earlier and did not just happen. It is not a problem which necessarily will be solved in a period of 10 years; it is a long-term problem and should be looked at on a long-term basis.

The profitability of the project depends entirely on the high diversion rate of accompanied-passenger traffic from the ports to the tunnel. The forecasts are unrealistic in the first place because they did not take proper account of the continuing competition from sea ferries. Nevertheless, the calculations were based on the assumption that oil and petrol would continue to be cheap and plentiful—an assumption which today nobody would make.