Orders of the Day — Channel Tunnel Bill

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons am 12:00 am ar 5 Rhagfyr 1973.

Danfonwch hysbysiad imi am ddadleuon fel hyn

Photo of Mr Fred Mulley Mr Fred Mulley , Sheffield Park 12:00, 5 Rhagfyr 1973

If the hon. and learned Gentleman will do me the courtesy of listening to what I have to say he will realise that I am concerned not only with the particular form of tunnel but with the priority accorded to the expenditure of the large capital sums involved in the project. We are concerned about the possibility of using that money to provide other things elsewhere in the country. I am not attracted to alternative forms of construction. What we are saying is that in spite of the public relations effort by the Government we are satisfied that this is in essence a "rolling motorway". That is how the White Paper describes it.

Also, we are by no means convinced that the Government's figures, the whole foundation on which they have made their decision, are sound. We are even more sceptical about the figures because the Government have been unwilling to expose them to public examination. We are also extremely worried about the preemption of resources and the environmental aspects of the project as they affect the people of Kent.

Before I develop my points, however, there are one or two questions which I should like answered. Assuming that the Bill goes through in the present Session, how is it intended to operate phases 2 and 3 of the scheme? May we have a clear undertaking from the Government that no powers conferred by the Bill will be used to acquire land or to advance the project until the House has taken a firm decision to move from phase 2 to phase 3? Surely the greater part of the powers to be conferred by the Bill will apply only to the actual construction of the tunnel or to the operation of the authority which is to be established. Will the Government continue to acquire land and create environmental problems in preparation for phase 3 without the House having approved the transition to that phase?

We understand that the British Railways Board will be introducing a Private Bill for its part of the operation. Is that to be presented in the next parliamentary Session of 1974–75, or will it be introduced in the current Session some time next year? As I understood the right hon. Gentleman's statement last week, some railway expenditure will be made in the present parliamentary Session next year before the Bill is introduced. What will be the nature of that expenditure which will be incurred before the Bill has been presented to and approved by Parliament? Will the railway Bill be presented by the Railways Board or will it be a Hybrid Bill similar in character to the one now before us?

The detailed provisions admirably explained by the Under-Secretary are more appropriate for discussion in Committee, if it is reached, than on Second Reading. We feel obliged to amplify why we feel unable to support the Bill today. We welcome that the project will help the railways, but it will not provide nearly as much help as the ministerial public relations exercise suggests. The revenue forecasts are based on the project being a "rolling motorway" as described in the White Paper. That brings me to the figures on which the Government base their case. Practically every financial commentator has said that if the figures are right there is no need for a Government guarantee, or that, if the guarantee is to be given, the division of profit between private capital and the Government should be changed. In this respect the previous administration made no arrangements about the detailed financing of the project.

We are led to understand that the final information on which a decision was based became available only a few months ago. Our administration could not possibly have formed a view in 1970 about the viability of the project. Many of these studies had only just begun, and some had not even reached that stage. Although in my time as Minister discussions were proceeding with various financial interests, no scheme was produced and we gave no approval of any basic division between loans and equity or about the basis on which the scheme is now presented. The final financial details were agreed only recently. I make that point to rebut any suggestion that we as an administration gave our approval.

Anyone with even a modest knowledge of business knows that an agreement in principle to explore the possibility of partnership is one thing and that no such venture is undertaken without knowing not only the basis of that undertaking but how the capital contributions will be shared and how the profits will be divided between the partners. Without answers to those questions any discussion about a partnership would be academic.