Industrial Relations

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons am 12:00 am ar 4 Rhagfyr 1973.

Danfonwch hysbysiad imi am ddadleuon fel hyn

Photo of Mr Ernest Fernyhough Mr Ernest Fernyhough , Jarrow 12:00, 4 Rhagfyr 1973

The hon. Member for Aberdeenshire, East (Mr. Wolrige-Gordon) spoke of the benefits which have come to his constituents from the Act. He does not represent a similar constituency to mine. In my constituency, in which there is a strong trade union movement, the position after the passing of the Act is the same as it was before. No one has taken steps to prosecute any of my constituents who in their thousands have been acting in contravention of the law.

I am sure that the Treasury Bench know why. It is because the large employers—ICI, the National Coal Board and the heavy electrical engineering industry—have decided, together with the large trade unions, that they will contract out. Neither the employers nor the unions are invoking the law. Therefore the Government are embarrassed because only the smaller industrialists and smaller unions are using the court.

It was to my constituency that the sequestrators went. It was from a council in my constituency that the £100,000 was taken. The AUEW has millions of pounds, a substantial part of which is invested, but out of all those investments it was decided to take the £100,000 to pay the fine from a Labour-controlled council on which there are seven AUEW members. Although one of the seven was elected as a Tory he joined in the unanimous vote of the council against the money being handed over.

Why was Hebburn Council chosen? Is it because it is such a strong Labour council? Is it because seven of its members are members of the union which was fined? Is it because it has done one of the best slum clearance jobs in the country? Is it because it has done a marvellous job with revitalisation and with improvements to the environment?

Hebburn Council is being fined. It borrowed this money at a substantially lower rate of interest than it has had to pay for replacement money. Why should the 25,000 people in Hebburn who have done no wrong, broken no law, be the victims of this Act?

When I asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what he would do to compensate the council and ratepayers for the additional expenditure that was involved—because of the necessity to borrow money at a rate higher than that at which it had borrowed the money which has been filched from it—he said that it was only his job to sanction loans. Hebburn Council believes that it has a moral obligation to repay the union. It is seeking legal advice as to how that can be done. Will the Secretary of State for the Environment allow it to raise a loan to meet what it believes to be a moral obligation?

It says that it borrowed this money from the AUEW and wants to repay it. Why should it not be allowed to do so if it has a better sense of morality than the Treasury? One of the interesting features of this debate has been the way that everyone pretends that the Act is working well. People say that it has done marvels and worked wonders. Yet at the same time the Government say, "If you have amendments we are willing to listen to them". If it is working well, if it has done its job, why should there be any need to amend it?

If the Government think that, why do they not re-read the debates that took place during the passage of the Act?

If they were to re-read some of the amendments we moved and were then willing to adopt them we might get rid of some of our troubles. We have troubles and will continue to have them as long as the trade unions feel that they are being made to be scapegoats. It is a very funny thing. Everyone knows about the scandals of property and land speculators, of the banking and financial world which are revealed every day. The Government are like Nelson, only they have two blind eyes. They cannot see anything that happens in banking, property or in commerce. They can see only the wickedness of the very people upon whom the foundations of our society depend.

At present 1 per cent. of the working population of the country—the miners—is engaging in what some would term, having regard to their contracts, an unfair industrial practice. The Government will not and dare not do anything about it. If they had any sense they would say to all these people who are infuriated over the unfairness in our society, "We will deal with the things which you demand should be dealt with on the basis that you will likewise play the game."

Until the Government are prepared to deal with the matters I have mentioned, firmly and resolutely, are ready to shackle and cripple such undertakings in the same way as they seek to cripple, hamstring and shackle the trade unions, there is no hope. The Secretary of State has made a great name for himself as a consequence of what he has attempted in the past 18 months in Ulster. There he came to recognise the realities of the situation. He realised that all of the troubles in Ulster were not due to a few wicked Irish people, but that there were elements on both sides who needed their heads knocking together.

He made a platform. He brought both sides together and made it possible, by shifting his ground and taking a line completely different from his original approach, for progress to be made. I want him to do with industrial relations what he has done for Northern Ireland. I want him to try to bring some common sense into this Act. If he does that he will have done something which will make possible a fairer society and will give us hope that the "One Nation" and "A Better Tomorrow" of which the Tories talked during the election could become a reality not in this Government's lifetime but in the lifetime of the next Government.