Industrial Relations

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons am 12:00 am ar 4 Rhagfyr 1973.

Danfonwch hysbysiad imi am ddadleuon fel hyn

Photo of Mr Charles Simeons Mr Charles Simeons , Luton 12:00, 4 Rhagfyr 1973

It is worth while comparing some of the anomalies that take place in industry. It is my belief that the British managements of United States-owned firms have far better industrial relations than do American managements of American-owned firms over here. Small firms with fewer than 300 employees have far better industrial industrial relations than do large firms. It is a question of good communications. Looking at separate factories within large companies—I have two in my constituency—it is interesting to see that whilst in Luton there is little confrontation and few strikes at the Vauxhall works, at Ellesmere Port it is a rare occasion to find the factory working continuously. I suspect that there are reasons for that. They are not to be found in relationships between management and workers, but in the area of Ellesmere Port the people have been used to being unemployed and there is a fear that this will happen again. Therefore, they are receptive to those who wish to create industrial strife.

Often, however, there is a problem of attitudes. I should be the first to point out the shortcomings of some managements. On 1st May I was quite surprised when large numbers of trade unionists approached me asking me to get in touch with those factories in Luton which had decided to shut. The majority did not shut, and about 90 per cent. of their workers went to work. But two factories did shut, and consequently there was no possibility for the silent majority to show their will.

Some unions are at fault. Instead of fulfilling their rôle of bettering conditions, the workers involved find themselves bound up in disputes from which they suffer great losses of wages. Most of them are bewildered. To a great extent the remedy is in the hands of the silent majority—provided that the management does not choose to lock them out on the one occasion when the silent majority can show its will. The Act is a basis for hearing disputes and ventilating them. I believe that the Act is right in those sections dealing with unfair dismissal, that contracts of unemployment should be clear and that union affairs should be seen to be up to a standard. But perhaps the greatest virtue is the code that goes with the Act. If it did nothing else, it forced employers to examine their procedures and make certain that they were conforming to the code, because otherwise, when the question of unfair dismissal arose, they would be seen to be at fault and would probably suffer as a result. It is not surprising, therefore, that the unions should be considered in the same way. I am sure that many unions also conform with the code, though many did not need to do so because their procedures were excellent anyway.

I join with my hon. Friend the Member for Basingstoke in having doubts about the loss of the closed shop. In the motor industry particularly there is great virtue in management dealing with as few unions as possible—unions which are able to speak for everyone. Had the loss of the closed shop come about it would have made life much more difficult.

Registration is a complex question. I find it very difficult, other than in an emotive sense, perhaps, to understand why anyone should resist standards, or being registered. We see young doctors, young dentists, young accountants and young lawyers flocking to have their standards recognised. Indeed, anyone who wishes to set up a company clamours to have this recognition and to have its standards accepted, so that it can be registered. The suggestion that the Industrial Relations Act was the result of bad industrial relations misses the point that it is no more nor less than one could say about the divorce legislation having been the cause of unhappy marriages. To say that the Act is a failure because most hourly-paid people do not become involved totally overlooks the fact that they need not be involved. They go about their daily work quite happily. One can draw a parallel and say that the divorce legislation is a failure because so few take advantage of it. We do not want people to take advantage of the Industrial Relations Act, because we hope that they can get on without it. But it should remain as a long stop.

For the individual, industrial relations generally are good. Basically, the individual wants continuous employment. At the same time, he wants his rights upheld. Sadly, there are some who do not seek this and do not always work in the interests of other union members. We have seen, as the motion shows, that there have been political occasions when the seizure of funds was not necessary. I find it very difficult to believe that the definition of this particular fund was other than an accident of book-keeping. If any of us appears in court and is fined, the magistrate or judge does not say to us, "Is that your holiday money that I shall be taking, or the children's Christmas money?" He fines us. If we believe that he is being unfair or taking money the loss of which will make life impossible, it is for us to say so. If we do not, we go on our way and he assumes that all is well. I see no reason why trade unions should be treated differently from their individual members or from anyone else in regard to appearances in court.

Whatever the argument may be, I believe that some law is necessary to regulate the way that we behave at work so long as laws are still necessary to regulate our behaviour towards each other. Those who claim otherwise are really saying that when we act collectively we are better behaved than when we act individually towards each other.