I join with other hon. Members in saying how glad we are to see the right hon. Gentleman the Secretary of State for Employment back in the House. However, I do not know whether he is glad to be here in his new capacity, but at least we can say that he brings a fresh mind to bear on this subject.

I intend to get down to issues so that he can address his mind to the subject of this debate. The right hon. Gentleman said that every union was free to register. But it is just because the Amalgamated Union of Engineering Workers chose not to register that it landed itself in trouble and was mulcted of heavy damages. So much for freedom.

We must also bear in mind that this matter has evoked a great deal of indignation. I appreciate that it would not be in order to debate the other motion, but I should point out that 184 hon. Members have signed that motion on a matter which is seriously felt.

I want to turn to another part of the case. Sir John Donaldson, the President of the Industrial Relations Court, made a speech at the dinner of the Institute of Chartered Accountants on 26th November in Glasgow. It should be noted that he made that speech at a dinner, on a subject which may have been the subject of appeal, and a subject which was due to be debated in this House. The Guardian reported that Sir John Donaldson … did not understand the complaint—being made by some AUEW MPs—that the money was from the union's political funds and should not have been taken. Had that been allowed to stand there is no doubt we would have had an issue of privilege before Mr. Speaker, because it is not for a High Court judge to reflect on the behaviour or actions of Members of Parliament. But I noticed that in the official hand-out there was no reference to "AUEW MPs" but to "some members of the union". Therefore, we must take it on its merits.

The Secretary of State for Employment speaks against a considerable background of experience. I watched with interest on television the profile on the right hon. Gentleman, as a result of which we came to know the right hon. Gentleman a little better. He responds according to his roots and is the sort of man who learns from his experience. I am the sort of man who has learned from my experience as a result of 55 years' membership of the AUEW. I have stood with my colleagues in the union in good times and bad, and I have a feeling of solidarity with them. Although it may be completely academic to say that my union should have gone to the court—although this is not contained in the motion—I can understand the steps and the train of thought that led them to their present situation.

It is worth remembering that the union represented people long before there was a franchise in this country. This was the union that first gave a Member of Parliament a salary—I refer to John Burns. It should be realised that from the time of the great Reform Bill to the foundations of the Labour Party the trade unions were the defenders of the poor. And they were more than that, for they defended the voteless proletariat and the peasantry. Whenever political fortunes turn against its members, they turn back to their old defences. After all, the strike weapon is still legal in this country. So it is with the miners. With this Government in power the only method of protest is to strike.

The Trades Union Congress laid down the law. It said that unions were free to register or not to register. My union, with most of the other big industrial unions, decided not to register. The TUC said that unions could go to the court if they wished. Some did. It was not said that they had to go to the court.

It is no use the president of the court arguing that he was not concerned with sequestration and that this was the responsibility of his underlings. No Minister could argue in the House that he was not responsible for his civil servants. Everyone, including the president of the court, must be responsible for the consequences of his own acts.

The president of the court has gone to a great deal of trouble to tell us how the court works. He described how the court sequestrates money and said that the powers of the court are not exercised by a single judge but by a bench of three consisting of a judge and two industrial members. Did he consult them about the sequestration? They are supposed to know something about industrial relations. He said that the court decided to appoint four eminent chartered accountants as sequestrators and instructed them to take possession of £100,000 of the union's assets.

Sir John Donaldson is not unused to controversy. He could easily have ensured that the fine was taken from the general funds of the union. Earlier the right hon. and learned Member for Hertfordshire, East (Sir D. Walker-Smith) asked a question which I will now answer. He asked how we knew that the fine was taken out of the political fund. It is a separate fund and the cheque was made out to Hebburn UDC, so it was known. That is the simple answer. If Sir John Donaldson or Master Seaton were here they could not argue against the fact that that was the last investment that the union had made and that it was the easiest one to pick up.