– in the House of Commons am 12:00 am ar 4 Rhagfyr 1973.
Mr Selwyn Lloyd
, Wirral
12:00,
4 Rhagfyr 1973
Mr. Charles Pannell, on a matter of privilege.
Mr Charles Pannell
, Leeds West
I wish to raise a matter of privilege, or rather of contempt of this House, by the Lord Chancellor. I start from a self-evident basis that you, Mr. Speaker, and you alone, are responsible for the Order Paper. What goes on it is a matter for you, and it is for you to rule a matter out of order if you think it is wrong. It is not for the Lord Chancellor, in Another place, drinking and eating at the Carlton Glut)—[HON. MEMBERS : "Junior Carlton Club."]—last night, not in the House of Lords, to tell us what should be on the Order Paper, or to attempt to pre-empt the debate that will take place later today. For this purpose we have to make up our minds whether we are dealing with the Lord Chancellor, a Peer of Parliament or a leading member of the Conservative Party.
In this context it is worth remembering that when the order for sequestration was made against the Amalgamated Union of Engineering Workers it was signed and witnessed by Quintin McGarel Baron Hailsham of St. Marylebone. Having started that judicial process, it is reasonable that he should keep his nose out of the matter.
In asking you to make a ruling, I know that the position of a peer is not the same as that of other people. It is laid down in the 18th Edition of Erskine May, in page 169 :
Hence it is that neither House can claim, much less exercise, any authority over a Member of the other. Neither House of Parliament can take upon itself to punish any breach of privilege or contempt offered to it by any Member of The other House. If any complaint is made against any individual Member or against any of the officers of The other House the usual mode of proceeding is to examine into the fact and then lay a statement of that evidence before the House of which the person complained of is a Member or officer.
I am therefore asking you to rule, Mr. Speaker, whether there is enough evidence in the speech made by the Lord Chancellor last night for you to take action. I quote, not from the newspapers, but from the official hand-out of the speech :
And what of a judge who has been so traduced unjustly, and by a motion every statement of fact in which is false, and could have been ascertained to be false at the time the motion was put down?
We call ourselves "honourable" Members because we presume that there is honour in the House. Before signing that motion I scrupulously examined it and had researches made. Every statement in it was true. Therefore, the honour of a Member of the House and of all the Members who signed the motion, has to be set against the honour of somebody who escaped from this place by the grace of Wedgwood Benn and went to the other place to become head of the judiciary. What are we to say of anyone who holds forth on matters of proberty and integrity when this sort of thing is done?
The hand-out of the speech is far longer than the part I have quoted and it will have appeared in all the newspapers. I ask you, Mr. Speaker, to say something about it.
That statement will brood over our debate today and I ask you to say at the beginning of the debate, Mr. Speaker, what rule of order you will seek to lay down to guide hon. Members on the Opposition benches, or to guard them from the capital that will be sought to be made from the Lord Chancellor's speech. If the speech is ruled out of order, it will have to be out of order for both sides of the House while you consider it.
This is a matter on which someone has attempted to lay down the law to you,Mr. Speaker. I can only wonder what would have happened if you had attempted to take such monstrous liberties with Members of the other place.
I raise the matter with great reluctance. We are always told to be very solicitous and never to refer to the other place in terms other than those of good will. During the 24 years I have been in this place, I have always observed that custom.
Mr Norman Tebbit
, Epping
Humbug.
Mr Charles Pannell
, Leeds West
If the hon. Gentleman who called out "Humbug" will rise in his place, Mr. Speaker will no doubt call him to order.
Mr Norman Tebbit
, Epping
Mr Selwyn Lloyd
, Wirral
Does the right hon. Gentleman wish me to take into account the hand-out in considering my ruling? I have a copy of The Times. I have not a copy of the hand-out. Will he bring it to the Table?
I am obliged to the right hon. Gentleman for giving me a copy of the hand-out. In accordance with modern practice I will consider this matter carefully and rule upon it tomorrow.
The house of Lords is the upper chamber of the Houses of Parliament. It is filled with Lords (I.E. Lords, Dukes, Baron/esses, Earls, Marquis/esses, Viscounts, Count/esses, etc.) The Lords consider proposals from the EU or from the commons. They can then reject a bill, accept it, or make amendments. If a bill is rejected, the commons can send it back to the lords for re-discussion. The Lords cannot stop a bill for longer than one parliamentary session. If a bill is accepted, it is forwarded to the Queen, who will then sign it and make it law. If a bill is amended, the amended bill is sent back to the House of Commons for discussion.
The Lords are not elected; they are appointed. Lords can take a "whip", that is to say, they can choose a party to represent. Currently, most Peers are Conservative.
House of Lords
The House of Commons.
The order paper is issued daily and lists the business which will be dealt with during that day's sitting of the House of Commons.
It provides MPs with details of what will be happening in the House throughout the day.
It also gives details of when and where the standing committees and select committees of the Commons will be meeting.
Written questions tabled to ministers by MPs on the previous day are listed at the back of the order paper.
The order paper forms one section of the daily vote bundle and is issued by the Vote Office
The House of Lords. When used in the House of Lords, this phrase refers to the House of Commons.
During a debate members of the House of Commons traditionally refer to the House of Lords as 'another place' or 'the other place'.
Peers return the gesture when they speak of the Commons in the same way.
This arcane form of address is something the Labour Government has been reviewing as part of its programme to modernise the Houses of Parliament.
The Chancellor - also known as "Chancellor of the Exchequer" is responsible as a Minister for the treasury, and for the country's economy. For Example, the Chancellor set taxes and tax rates. The Chancellor is the only MP allowed to drink Alcohol in the House of Commons; s/he is permitted an alcoholic drink while delivering the budget.
The Speaker is an MP who has been elected to act as Chairman during debates in the House of Commons. He or she is responsible for ensuring that the rules laid down by the House for the carrying out of its business are observed. It is the Speaker who calls MPs to speak, and maintains order in the House. He or she acts as the House's representative in its relations with outside bodies and the other elements of Parliament such as the Lords and the Monarch. The Speaker is also responsible for protecting the interests of minorities in the House. He or she must ensure that the holders of an opinion, however unpopular, are allowed to put across their view without undue obstruction. It is also the Speaker who reprimands, on behalf of the House, an MP brought to the Bar of the House. In the case of disobedience the Speaker can 'name' an MP which results in their suspension from the House for a period. The Speaker must be impartial in all matters. He or she is elected by MPs in the House of Commons but then ceases to be involved in party politics. All sides in the House rely on the Speaker's disinterest. Even after retirement a former Speaker will not take part in political issues. Taking on the office means losing close contact with old colleagues and keeping apart from all groups and interests, even avoiding using the House of Commons dining rooms or bars. The Speaker continues as a Member of Parliament dealing with constituent's letters and problems. By tradition other candidates from the major parties do not contest the Speaker's seat at a General Election. The Speakership dates back to 1377 when Sir Thomas Hungerford was appointed to the role. The title Speaker comes from the fact that the Speaker was the official spokesman of the House of Commons to the Monarch. In the early years of the office, several Speakers suffered violent deaths when they presented unwelcome news to the King. Further information can be obtained from factsheet M2 on the UK Parliament website.
The Opposition are the political parties in the House of Commons other than the largest or Government party. They are called the Opposition because they sit on the benches opposite the Government in the House of Commons Chamber. The largest of the Opposition parties is known as Her Majesty's Opposition. The role of the Official Opposition is to question and scrutinise the work of Government. The Opposition often votes against the Government. In a sense the Official Opposition is the "Government in waiting".
Of a male MP, sitting on his regular seat in the House. For females, "in her place".
To allow another Member to speak.
