Part of the debate – in the House of Commons am 12:00 am ar 4 Tachwedd 1965.
—has been not that there has been a lot of criticism on the part of my hon. Friend or other people, but an absence of ill-advised criticism, and I should have thought that such troubles as exist had nothing to do with any criticisms which have been made. The problem of the industry in South Wales is real, unfortunately, and the hon. Lady does know that.
When I listened to the right hon. Gentleman the Secretary of State opening the debate I was tempted to imagine that all good things—"the new Jerusalem"—were created the day the Labour Party was elected last October. Then, more correctly, when my right hon. Friend the Member for Monmouth (Mr. Thorneycroft) responded, he quite rightly pointed out that of all the good things which exist obviously most of them must have been due to efforts made before October of last year, and that became apparent when one looked more closely at the account given by the Secretary of State of industrial progress. Indeed, even when he dealt with some of the new advance factories and other factories which have been approved, or which have been let, it was noticeable that among them were included several which were planned by my right hon. Friend the Member for Leeds, North-East (Sir K. Joseph) when he was Minister some time ago.
However, as several hon. Members have pointed out, a good deal has happened since we last debated Welsh affairs. As we have been reminded this afternoon, the last Welsh debate on the Floor of the House was as long ago as 25th June, 1964, and, like my hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff, North (Mr. Box), I am sorry that we have had to wait 17 months for what was intended to be at least an annual occasion. I hope that its relegation to the last business day of this Session does not indicate the Government's estimate of the importance of Welsh affairs.
The Secretary of State is entitled, of course, to refer to the institution of his Department and of his present office as among major changes of this last year. But I would like to remind hon. Gentlemen opposite that these changes have carried further the process which was commenced with the creation in 1951 of the office of Minister of Welsh Affairs and the addition some years later of a Minister of State. In the years of Conservative Administration we also saw the setting up of the Welsh Grand Committee, to which reference has been made, the devolution of the administration of many Government Departments in Wales, and the production of an intelligence unit in the Welsh Office. It can therefore justly be said that, whatever we failed to do in office, the party on this side did provide a basis or springboard for these further constitutional changes.
Now we have moved to a system which is analagous to though not exactly the same as the Scottish system. It is not quite so fully developed as yet. I would disagree in some measure with my hon. Friend for Cardiff North, because I feel that it is perhaps too soon yet to assess fully the efficacy of the new arrangements. But, inevitably, as the months pass, these constitutional changes will be examined more closely and more critically, not only here but in Wales, too.
I would like the Minister of State to give us more information, not so much about the functions which have been directly transferred to the responsibility of himself and his colleagues, but more about those other functions which my right hon. Friend for Monmouth mentioned, where direct control still reposes with United Kingdom Ministers.
Let me take one example which affects my own constituency and to which oblique reference has already been made. The docks at the port of Barry give employment directly and indirectly to some 2,500 of my constituents. They would undoubtedly suffer severely if the Port-bury scheme of the Port of Bristol Authority should be approved. I believe that all the South Wales ports would be adversely affected. The final decision about the Portbury scheme will lie with the Minister of Transport to whom I, in conjunction with the Barry council and others interested, have already made representations.
Meanwhile, what part is to be played by the Secretary of State for Wales? Will the right hon. Gentleman leave the decision entirely to the Minister of Transport, or will he assert the interests of those who work in the docks at Barry, Cardiff, Swansea and Newport? Ports are not one of the functions as yet transferred to his responsibility. Nevertheless, if his words a year ago mean anything at all, surely the ports are within his general responsibility. By virtue of his office, the Minister of Transport will seek to give a fair and dispassionate decision, but I think it is the proper function of the Secretary of State to make the strongest representations on behalf of the South Wales ports, and I would like some response, if possible, from the Minister of State about that.
Another obvious example arises in the future of the South Wales coalfield, to which so many speakers have referred today. When the First Secretary prepared his National Plan, did the Secretary of State for Wales advise on the extent to which the running down of the industry should be concentrated in the South Wales coalfield? If so, what was the extent of the reduction which he recommended? Can the Minister of State tell the House what assurances were given about the sorts of industries and the number of industries which would be provided for those miners who are to be made redundant? Although power is not amongst the functions which have been transferred to the direct control of the Minister of State, it is one of the functions where he has a very important rôle to fill. In short, it would be helpful to the House if Ministers could let us know how and to what extent they intervene regarding those other functions.
Just as Conservative Administrations provided a springboard for constitutional advances, so they provided a springboard for new economic and industrial progress in the Principality. Like my right hon. Friend for Monmouth, I trust that that impetus is to be maintained, and I feel sure that the right hon. Gentleman and his colleagues have that greatly in mind. I must confess to some disappointment, on looking at the National Plan, at the smallness in size and scope of the references to Wales. On the other hand, I believe that the foundations which have been laid and established in most parts of Wales are sound and should induce future growth.
In June of last year, in a similar debate, the present Chancellor of the Exchequer blamed most of the ills of the Welsh economy upon the tendency to "stop-go". In the past twelve months, at any rate, we have had a great amount of stop, and very little go. To that extent, one must feel less optimistic than one did. There has been none of the dramatic increase in production which the party opposite promised us some time ago. In that connection, I feel that the inflationary trends of the last twelve months must add to the difficult task of making British industry more competitive. As in the rest of the United Kingdom, in Wales we must not only produce more, but produce it more efficiently. That is the task of our industry, as it is the task of industry throughout Britain. While I am no dogmatic or partisan opponent of planning in its best sense, I feel that generally the battle will be won, often in the individual plant rather than in some planning committee. As elsewhere, industry in Wales must become more competitive, as the world markets which it seeks are themselves becoming more competitive.
I hope that the Government will soon be able to give us more encouraging news about the road improvements which have been mentioned by the hon. Lady for Carmarthen and others. Some of the urgently needed road improvement pro- grammes are being held back. As an example, the right hon. Gentleman the Secretary of State referred to an improvement which he is approving in respect of part of the road to Merthyr. I forget the exact distance, but it omits part of the road between Cardiff and Pontypridd, and that part of the road carries very heavy industrial traffic. Between Whit-church and Pontypridd, there are serious bottlenecks, and that part of the scheme should be brought forward. Then there are the obvious danger spots which need early attention. One which I have brought recently to the notice of the Welsh Office is the extremely dangerous junction between the main road from Barry, in my own constituency, to Llantwit Major, which is in the constituency of the hon. Member for Pontypridd (Mr. Arthur Pearson). There is a junction at Rhoose with the road known as Fonmon Road, which is extremely dangerous, and it is the sort of danger spot which should receive early attention.
Before I conclude I want to make one or two references to other extremely important matters. One of the most injurious steps which the Government have taken—they may feel that they had to take it—is the curtailment of minor educational works which were formerly within the discretion of local education authorities. I know that minor improvements are not so spectacular as new school projects, but in many parts of Wales minor improvements are more important than some of the new school projects. The sort of improvements which I have in mind—and I apologise for being rather parochial and giving another constituency example—is where there is a need for modern water closets, modern wash basins and efficient drinking water systems. All these were needed recently in the village school at Radyr in my constituency, and I have now had some assurance about this school, but I hope that the Minister of State will at an early date pay particular attention to the many schemes of this kind which are badly needed in many parts of the Principality.
The other matter to which I wish to refer in the educational sphere has already been referred to by my right hon. Friend the Member for Monmouth. The party opposite, both individually and collectively, spoke in such strong terms about the need for an agricultural college in Wales that I thought they would announce their approval of it on the first day of taking office. I am astonished that we have not yet had this good news. A year or two ago the indication was that they would not waste a day in bringing forward this scheme once they got into office.