Wales

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons am 12:00 am ar 4 Tachwedd 1965.

Danfonwch hysbysiad imi am ddadleuon fel hyn

Photo of Mr Nigel Birch Mr Nigel Birch , Flintshire West 12:00, 4 Tachwedd 1965

If the hon. Gentleman will accompany me down the High Street of St. Asaph on a day in summer, he will realise what I mean. My own experience is that traffic is worse there than in Abergele. One gets an immense concentration of traffic in the short stretch along the main shopping street.

My last point is rather a different one, and concerns the Territorial Army in North Wales. Obviously in the present debate it would be wrong to go into the whole strategic argument about our reserves and what ought to happen about the Territorial Army as a backing for the Regular Army. I think that the Government's plans are wrong, and I agree with my right hon. Friend the Member for Wolverhampton, South-West (Mr. Powell) in a speech that he made at the Conservative Party Conference about it. It is wrong to start knocking down our reserves before we decide what our main defence policy is going to be. But that is not the aspect of the problem at which I wish to look, because the one that interests me is what is to happen when the task of home defence and assistance to the civil power in an emergency—which is now one of the main functions of the Territorial Army—ceases. I am told that if this scheme goes through the only Territorials in the whole of North Wales will be one infantry company, and the old traditions of the regiments there will go.

Suppose there is a real scare. Suppose people think that civil defence will have to be used. North Wales is presumably an evacuation area. I wonder how many people in Liverpool have not got a relation in North Wales? There cannot be very many. If there is a scare, and people pour into North Wales, the existing police will obviously be incapable of dealing with the situation. One reason why the Territorial Army was kept on was to act as an aid to civil defence. Let us hope to goodness it will never happen, but if there is an emergency there may be panic, and one needs a disciplined body of men to control events. I doubt if we shall be able to keep even one isolated company going, so there will be nobody at all in that vast area to help the police in the event of an emergency. I beg the Secretary of State to put this point to his right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Defence before this T.A. scheme goes through, because if it does we will be left naked and in a position of danger.