Oral Answers to Questions — Public Building and Works – in the House of Commons am 12:00 am ar 11 Chwefror 1964.
Mr Geoffrey Rippon
, Norwich South
I have decided to move the accounts Division of my Ministry to Hastings as one of my Ministry's contributions to the dispersal of staff from London. The accounts division is an integral part of the Ministry's headquarters so that for operational reasons it has to be within about one to one and a half hours travelling time from London.
Some dozen places within this radius were considered in consultation with the Ministry of Housing and Local Government. Not all of these could provide the facilities required and the list was reduced to three towns. As these three towns were equally acceptable for official purposes, the staff were consulted and expressed a preference for Hastings.
As it was necessary to have the accounts division within one to one and a half hours travelling time from London it was not possible to consider on this occasion any areas of Scotland.
It is not possible to estimate precisely the financial effect of the move. The only substantial saving is in the cost of accommodation which will be well over £100,000 per annum.
I do not expect any major administrative problems to arise from this move.
Mr Tam Dalyell
, West Lothian
Is that the sort of example that the Government ought to set to the private sector?
Mr Geoffrey Rippon
, Norwich South
Yes, Sir.
Mr George Lawson
, Motherwell
Are we to understand that the right hon. Gentleman's policy has been determined according to the wishes of his staff, that they would like to live in a convenient place near to London, despite the reiterated policy from other members of the Government that they will use this particular power to reduce congestion in areas such as the South-East and to help other parts of the country? Is it not the case of some "old boy" network operating here?
Mr Geoffrey Rippon
, Norwich South
No, Sir, to both supplementary questions.
Mr Eustace Willis
, Edinburgh East
Can the right hon. Gentleman give the reasons why it would be impossible to take it further than one and a half hour's distance? Does he not think that this decision is scandalous?
Mr Geoffrey Rippon
, Norwich South
I have explained the answer to that already.
Mr William Ross
, Kilmarnock
Am I right in thinking that the reason the right hon. Gentleman gave was that it had to be within one and a half hour's distance of headquarters? Is not that a good reason for changing the headquarters? Would it not be a grand idea to have the headquarters in Glasgow, where there is a seaside resort within 30 miles of Glasgow at Ayr, and thereby he could save the deposit of the Tory candidate?
Mr Geoffrey Rippon
, Norwich South
There is, of course, an office of the Ministry in Scotland which is adequate for that purpose.
Mr Bruce Millan
, Glasgow Craigton
Will the right hon. Gentleman be a little more specific about the operational reasons for making the office only one and a half hour's journey from London? Is he not aware that that is precisely the kind of argument used by private industry, and it is very important that the Government should give an example? if there are good reasons for this, the Government should be very forthcoming about them and let the House and private enterprise know them.
Mr Geoffrey Rippon
, Norwich South
That is a very sensible question. The reason is that members of the accounts Division are very frequently called to London, often at short notice, to deal with matters. The accounts division is an integral part of the headquarters division. We had some experience of this when the accounts office was at Rhyl during the war and just after, and this proved highly unsatisfactory.
Mr Harry Gourlay
, Kirkcaldy District of Burghs
The Minister said that the new branch had to be a one and a half hour's journey from London. Is he aware that quite a large part of central Scotland is only an hour's flight from London? What reason can he give for the complete and callous disregard of the possibility of siting this office in Scotland?
Mr Geoffrey Rippon
, Norwich South
I should not like to rely on always being able to make the journey in that time. It must be borne in mind that this is only a part of the action which my Ministry is taking to help dispersal. The proposals I have made for decentralising more work to Scotland and Wales and other regions will assist further in dispersal.
Mr Emanuel Shinwell
, Easington
Do I understand from the Minister that these civil servants in his Department were asked in which place they would prefer to work? If that is the case, is this a new principle which the Government have established? Is it applied to the workers generally? Are they to be asked where they prefer to work, and will the Government agree to what they want?
Mr Geoffrey Rippon
, Norwich South
After consultation and discussion, there seemed to be three places which could make out a fair case for having a share of workers from London—Hastings, Swindon and Margate. In those circumstances, since they all had a case, we consulted the staff. I think that that is good staff relations.
Mr George Lawson
, Motherwell
In view of the completely unsatisfactory nature of those replies, I beg to give notice that I will try to raise this matter on the Adjournment at the earliest possible opportunity.
The House of Commons votes by dividing. Those voting Aye (yes) to any proposition walk through the division lobby to the right of the Speaker and those voting no through the lobby to the left. In each of the lobbies there are desks occupied by Clerks who tick Members' names off division lists as they pass through. Then at the exit doors the Members are counted by two Members acting as tellers. The Speaker calls for a vote by announcing "Clear the Lobbies". In the House of Lords "Clear the Bar" is called. Division Bells ring throughout the building and the police direct all Strangers to leave the vicinity of the Members’ Lobby. They also walk through the public rooms of the House shouting "division". MPs have eight minutes to get to the Division Lobby before the doors are closed. Members make their way to the Chamber, where Whips are on hand to remind the uncertain which way, if any, their party is voting. Meanwhile the Clerks who will take the names of those voting have taken their place at the high tables with the alphabetical lists of MPs' names on which ticks are made to record the vote. When the tellers are ready the counting process begins - the recording of names by the Clerk and the counting of heads by the tellers. When both lobbies have been counted and the figures entered on a card this is given to the Speaker who reads the figures and announces "So the Ayes [or Noes] have it". In the House of Lords the process is the same except that the Lobbies are called the Contents Lobby and the Not Contents Lobby. Unlike many other legislatures, the House of Commons and the House of Lords have not adopted a mechanical or electronic means of voting. This was considered in 1998 but rejected. Divisions rarely take less than ten minutes and those where most Members are voting usually take about fifteen. Further information can be obtained from factsheet P9 at the UK Parliament site.
Ministers make up the Government and almost all are members of the House of Lords or the House of Commons. There are three main types of Minister. Departmental Ministers are in charge of Government Departments. The Government is divided into different Departments which have responsibilities for different areas. For example the Treasury is in charge of Government spending. Departmental Ministers in the Cabinet are generally called 'Secretary of State' but some have special titles such as Chancellor of the Exchequer. Ministers of State and Junior Ministers assist the ministers in charge of the department. They normally have responsibility for a particular area within the department and are sometimes given a title that reflects this - for example Minister of Transport.
The House of Commons votes by dividing. Those voting Aye (yes) to any proposition walk through the division lobby to the right of the Speaker and those voting no through the lobby to the left. In each of the lobbies there are desks occupied by Clerks who tick Members' names off division lists as they pass through. Then at the exit doors the Members are counted by two Members acting as tellers. The Speaker calls for a vote by announcing "Clear the Lobbies". In the House of Lords "Clear the Bar" is called. Division Bells ring throughout the building and the police direct all Strangers to leave the vicinity of the Members’ Lobby. They also walk through the public rooms of the House shouting "division". MPs have eight minutes to get to the Division Lobby before the doors are closed. Members make their way to the Chamber, where Whips are on hand to remind the uncertain which way, if any, their party is voting. Meanwhile the Clerks who will take the names of those voting have taken their place at the high tables with the alphabetical lists of MPs' names on which ticks are made to record the vote. When the tellers are ready the counting process begins - the recording of names by the Clerk and the counting of heads by the tellers. When both lobbies have been counted and the figures entered on a card this is given to the Speaker who reads the figures and announces "So the Ayes [or Noes] have it". In the House of Lords the process is the same except that the Lobbies are called the Contents Lobby and the Not Contents Lobby. Unlike many other legislatures, the House of Commons and the House of Lords have not adopted a mechanical or electronic means of voting. This was considered in 1998 but rejected. Divisions rarely take less than ten minutes and those where most Members are voting usually take about fifteen. Further information can be obtained from factsheet P9 at the UK Parliament site.
The political party system in the English-speaking world evolved in the 17th century, during the fight over the ascension of James the Second to the Throne. James was a Catholic and a Stuart. Those who argued for Parliamentary supremacy were called Whigs, after a Scottish word whiggamore, meaning "horse-driver," applied to Protestant rebels. It was meant as an insult.
They were opposed by Tories, from the Irish word toraidhe (literally, "pursuer," but commonly applied to highwaymen and cow thieves). It was used — obviously derisively — to refer to those who supported the Crown.
By the mid 1700s, the words Tory and Whig were commonly used to describe two political groupings. Tories supported the Church of England, the Crown, and the country gentry, while Whigs supported the rights of religious dissent and the rising industrial bourgeoisie. In the 19th century, Whigs became Liberals; Tories became Conservatives.
