Part of the debate – in the House of Commons am 12:00 am ar 15 Rhagfyr 1949.
I do not think I had better give way at the moment. I was specially asked to keep my speech within the bounds of time, and obviously I must be a little selective about the persons to whom I can give way.
The hon. Member for Northern Dorset (Mr. Byers) said that this surely was not a matter about which there ought to be controversy. He may be right and I may be wrong, but I can only give the House my sincere opinion about this matter, and I can assure the House that I have tried to think about it as honestly as any hon. Member on either side. I can only tell the hon. Gentleman who put that question to me that not only is this a matter about which there ought to be controversy, but that if this Motion were passed, it would be a serious blow for democracy in this country.
Hon. Members, in fact, do not share that view, but I hope that they will at least listen to it, and try to follow it so far as their intelligences permit and so far as they can exhibit the manners to do so. There has been nothing said in the two speeches to which we have listened to alter my opinion or even to touch these arguments. [Interruption.] Perhaps hon. Members will do me the courtesy of listening to what I have to say, and if my views are as wholly wrong as they pretend, they will find an answer or two to the arguments which I propose to put, but they will be all the more easily answered if they are listened to first.
The hon. Member for East Waltham-stow complained that in a document, the exact authorship of which I am afraid 1 did not catch—and anyway it does not matter—somebody had referred to the party conflict as a battle. That was a little naive of him. The party conflict ought, of course, always to be subordinate on both sides to the public interest, and inspired on both sides by idealism. It ought to be coloured by chivalry and by decency of conduct, but it remains a struggle for power. It is a genuine struggle for genuine power, and it is precisely because it is that, that it possesses the sovereign virtue that it enables the people to remain free without losing to any Government their sense of authority.
It is easy in the more powerful of two armies for the stronger to betray its strength. There was a time in the war when we were not very strong, and the German Army was not at all afraid to say, "We have 300 Divisions." We could not do that, because we were the weaker force. Now it is my opinion that, so far as the powerful, vested, economic interests underlying the two great parties of the State are concerned, the Labour Party can draw upon resources which are more secure and much more powerful than those of any of its opponents. The best evidence of that that I can find is the existence of the Motion on the Paper this evening to ask the weaker of the two organisations locked in conflict with one another, to display the strength of its forces, so as to invite the stronger and bigger to seek advantage from its knowledge. It is to ask the other party to betray its plans and actions over a period of years. It is precisely because the more astute Members of the Labour Party are perfectly aware of this consideration that they have indulged in this dirty business, and I believe the public will recognise that as well as I do.
Secondly, the hon. Member for East Walthamstow was more naive and more straightforward than the hon. Member for Hornchurch. He made his demand perfectly plain. It is that we should publish a list of our financial supporters. The only financial supporter of the Labour Party that I know by name is Mr. Sydney Stanley. I do not want to know any more. The hon. Member for East Walthamstow has been long enough in the trade union world to know that no trade union has ever published a list of persons who pay trade union subscriptions. Of course they do not as long as there is any danger of victimisation. Ever since the Ballot Act in this country a man's political opinions have been regarded as his own possession—his own to reveal and proclaim if he wishes without fear, his own if he pleases to keep to himself. He and he alone is to be the judge, according to the traditions of decency and democracy in this country, whether either the extent of his commitment or its direction is revealed, and no other person than himself.
If we yield to the demand made tonight that we should publish the names of those who support our party, we shall be going back upon the sound tradition of fully 70 years ago, under which a man's political opinions are his own. With respect, it is not for those who are suspected of being likely to be guilty of victimisation to judge whether that fear of victimisation is or is not real and well grounded.
All that one can say is this, that ever since the Labour Party had a majority, its leaders, and in particular the Lord President of the Council, have sought to intimidate in one way or another all those bodies of organised opinion who do in fact differ from him. If the brewers seek to prevent State public houses in the new towns, they are threatened with dire legislative measures through the use of political power to shut their mouths. If the sugar manufacturers seek to prevent the nationalisation of their industry, they are threatened with prosecution for corrupt practice. If the Press criticise the Government it is vilified and abused and subjected to a Royal Commission, which was none the less tyrannical in intention than it was unfortunate and a failure in its result.
I certainly believe that if the names of those who support bodies hostile to the Government were known, the Lord President of the Council would keep that secret list in his office and would ensure that the humbler names were known, down to the streets and wards of the constituencies. At all events, as I have indicated before, it is not for those who are suspected of harbouring those desires to judge whether the fear is well or ill grounded. It is for those who feel the fear and who have observed the covert and the open action—both kinds—those attempts to undermine political freedom, to express whether or not they are going to give the information which is sought by those who are suspected of trying to undermine it.
I pass from the aspect whether this proposal is desirable or not to the question whether it is practicable or not. In my view, for what it is worth—and again hon. Members are perfectly entitled to differ from me if they want to, but I only ask them to believe that this opinion is sincerely held, and if they differ from' the reasons to find, if they can, an answer to them—is, that this reform is as meaningless and impracticable as it was originally I believe insincere and undesirable.