I desire to call the attention of the House in the brief time that remains, to the problems connected with emigration from this country to the Dominions. I would draw attention at the outset to the widespread desire there is in certain Dominions, to which I will refer, to increase their population. Only recently there has come into my possession sonic interesting information from Australia showing that the steps taken to increase the population have been successful during the last period. The gain in the population, despite all disturbances caused by war, in the Commonwealth in 1947 was over 11,000, but if it is examined from the point of view of the interchange of populations within the units of the British Commonwealth, it is not quite so satisfactory. Arrivals in Australia of people of British stock totalled about 23,000, whereas 17,000 left. There was a net gain of British stock of only 5,700, the remainder being Poles, Baits, and so on.

The present position with regard to immigration into Australia is that they have a target figure of some 70,000 a year, 30,000 representing British people under free and assisted schemes, and a further 20,000 they hope will travel under what I might colloquially call their own steam. The remainder will be displaced persons and other Europeans due from the United States. We come to this point. No one who has been in contact with any Australian will fail to realise how eager Australians are to see that any increase in population should be drawn from people of British stock and, if possible, from these islands. When I was in Australia I had as a companion the hon. Lady the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Food. Wherever we went we found there was a widespread desire in the Commonwealth for a large and substantial increase in population. In conversations with Australians we had various figures given to us. In fact there was an alarming, or rather a widespread, discrepancy in the estimates of the number of immigrants which certain Australians thought their Commonwealth could safely and comfortably absorb in the next few years. But on the whole the people with whom we spoke were satisfied that there was space and good living for a very large number of people indeed. The 70,000 a year which is the present objective of the Australian Government is about the maximum Australia can absorb from her own resources. I hope the Parliamentary Secretary will be able to tell us in the near future what arrangements are being made to see whether that number can be increased as part of an Empire scheme.

I now turn to Canada and draw the attention of the House to the speech made in the Canadian Senate by Mr. Arthur Roebuck on 3rd February when he moved a carefully thought-out resolution dealing with immigration, the type of immigrant, the availability of such immigrants, and facilities for his absorption in Canada and employment. The Canadian target is not so precisely defined as the Australian but it can be estimated at 50,000 or 60,000 a year. I do not doubt that other Dominions, South Africa, New Zealand, and Rhodesia have their own ambitions for securing an increase in population drawn from these islands.

While there is this widespread desire in the Dominions overseas to attract people from these islands, we come to the interesting report in the "News-Chronicle" of 19th May of a Gallup poll taken on this question: If you were free to do so, would you like to go and settle in another country? The detailed replies of the British people were: "Yes," 42 per cent. "No," 53 per cent. "Do not know," 5 per cent.

It was suggested in this House—I think it was in the Debate on Monday—that this eagerness to get out of this country had some connection with the policy of His Majesty's Government, but I am trying very hard not to be controversial tonight and the hon. Member who is replying would not wish me to go further. So I am not going to say that that is the prime cause. I believe indeed that the desire to emigrate from this country is one of the interesting phenomena connected with settlement after the war. There is this desire for movement, which may be instinctive—or it may be based on some appreciation of the future of this country.

The hon. Member for Buckrose (Mr. Wadsworth) in an article in the "Commonwealth and Empire Review" suggested that this country had too great a concentration of workers dependent for their income on industry in contrast to agriculture. I believe that opinion is widely held, and I would ask the hon. Member who is to reply, what steps the Government are taking now to examine this problem. Will they address themselves to the question of how many people we can support in this island at, various standards of living? How many can we support at the standard of living we used to enjoy on the outbreak of war, and how many at the standard we have now?

The population of this country at the time of its greatest prosperity in Igor was 41,000,000: it has since risen to over 48,000,000, and people who have examined this quite dispassionately from the scientific point of view without committing themselves to any figure at all, would say that a reduction in the numbers in this country would have no dangerous results whatsoever provided it was a fair sample of the population as a whole and not too selective as to age-groups. On the other hand, the removal of such a population voluntarily and of their own free will to the Dominions overseas would have beneficial results on those Dominions. Therefore, it is with some considerable regret that I heard the Prime Minister, answer the second of two questions put by the hon. and gallant Member for Lewes (Major Beamish) today. The hon. and gallant Gentleman asked the Prime Minister: if he will state the policy of the Government regarding the encouragement and facilitating of large-scale emigration to the Dominions and Colonies: and whether there is an identity of views between His Majesty's Government, Dominions Governments and the Colonial administrations concerning the desirability of greatly increased emigration from the United Kingdom. The Prime Minister replied: No consultations have been held between the Governments of Commonwealth countries on this subject, and I am not in a position to make any statement on the matter."—[OFFICIAL REPORT. 22nd April, 1948; Vol. 449, c. 2,000.] I should have thought that in the light of the planning that is taking place, we would have had a more satisfactory statement. Surely one of the first things to plan is the number of people for whom one proposes to provide a good and proper life? However, I can only hope that that reply was a result perhaps of an incomplete liaison between the Prime Minister's private office and the Commonwealth office, or of some other reason better known to hon. Gentlemen opposite, and that we may expect a more satisfactory answer from the hon. Gentleman tonight, and I would encourage him by asking a few questions.

What is the attitude of the Government to this question of emigration overseas? I have endeavoured to find out what it is and—I do not use the words offensively or unpleasantly—it can be accurately described as benevolent indifference. They are quite willing to allow people to go. They do nothing to stop or to help them. They let this question drift along in its own sweet way. What amount of consultation exists? Surely when people of British stock are transferring from one Dominion of the Crown to another there should be some consultation? If there is consultation, on what level is it? Is there any machinery to assist the emigrant who desires to move from this country to the country of his choice? How far does the Ministry of Labour, and the Ministry of Health come into the affair, and is there a point where they hand over and come into close touch with the corresponding departments of the Dominions overseas? If emigration is to be of real service to us I suggest that the proper arrangements should be made with full interchangeability of the social services, the mutual recognition of professional qualifications, and the interchangeability of trade union tickets. On these matters T would surely hope that at least some consultation is taking place.

I realise that the numbers travelling at the present time are very limited. The President of the Board of Trade spoke in Monday's Debate of the shipping shortage. I believe at the moment that is holding this question very much in check coupled with the housing difficulties which exist overseas, but as soon as the shipping problem, and the housing problem in the Dominions begin to ease, I believe that' those pent-up natural forces desiring, on the one hand, to move for reasons which appear to each individual right and proper, and, on the other hand, the attractions which Dominions eager to increase their population offer, will cause an enormous movement of population. For that we must be prepared both in our attitude of mind and machinery of government, and I can only hope very strongly here that these are matters on which the governments of all Dominions are freely and frankly interchanging their views.

In this very difficult post-war world, difficult not only for ourselves but also for the Dominions, it is not a matter for consultation which should be left on Government level alone. I think this is one of the most suitable things that Members of Parliament, as they meet in Parliamentary congresses from time to time, should discuss frankly and in a friendly manner. I have tried to be objective; I have not, I hope, put too many questions to the hon. Gentleman, but I am satisfied that, sooner or later, this country or the Dominions will expect something more satisfactory and forthcoming than the rather disappointing answer which we received from the Prime Minister at Question Time this afternoon.