– in the House of Commons am 12:00 am ar 30 Ionawr 1947.
Motion made, and Question proposed,
That, for the purpose of any Act of the present Session to make fresh provision for planning the development and use of land, and for purposes connected therewith (in this resolution referred to as 'the Act'), it is expedient to authorise—
A. The charging on the Consolidated Fund of the principal of and interest on stock to be issued under the Act in satisfaction of payments to be made thereunder in respect of interests in land which are depreciated in value by virtue of the provisions of the Act (not exceeding in the aggregate, together with payments to be made by virtue of any corresponding provisions which may be enacted in relation to Scotland, the sum of three hundred million pounds); the charging on and issuing out of that Fund of expenses in connection with the issue and management of any such stock; and the issuing out of that Fund of sums necessary to enable the Central Land Board to be established under the Act (in this resolution referred to as 'the Board ') to pay interest on any such payments pending the satisfaction thereof.
B. The issuing out of the Consolidated Fund of sums necessary to enable the Board to make other payments under the Act in respect of interests in land which are depreciated as aforesaid, being land which has sustained war damage in such circumstances that the appropriate payment under the War Damage Act, 1943, is a value payment, and to pay interest on such payments pending the satisfaction therof.
C. The raising of money by the Treasury, in any manner in which they are authorised to raise money under the National Loans Act, 1939,—
D. The payment by the Board into the Exchequer, out of moneys provided by Parliament, of annual instalments equal in the aggregate to the aggregate amount of—
together with interest on the said aggregate amount; and the issue out of the Consolidated Fund of sums so paid into the Exchequer, and their application in redemption or repayment of debt or, in so far as they represent interest, in payment of interest otherwise payable out of the permanent annual charge for the National Debt.E. The payment out of moneys provided by Parliament of expenses incurred by the Minister of Town and Country Planning (in this resolution referred to as "the Minister") in making grants, in accordance with regulations made under the Act, as follows, that is to say:
not exceeding sixty per cent. of the amount of the expenditure or loss in respect of which the grants are made;F. The payment out of moneys provided by Parliament of the following expenditure, that is to say:—
G. The payment into the Exchequer of any sums received by the Board in respect of the disposal of land acquired by the Board under powers conferred in that behalf by the Act and of any sums received by the Board, in accordance with arrangements made under the Act in respect of Crown Land, in substitution for development charges thereunder."—[Mr. Silkin.]—(King's Recommendation Signified.)
Sir John Mellor
, Sutton Coldfield
I wish to make some reference to this Money Resolution. In regard to paragraph A, this authorises
The charging on the Consolidated Fund of the principal of and interest on stock to be issued under the Act in satisfaction of payments to be made thereunder … not exceeding £300 million.
First of all, I think that the word "satisfaction" is rather a curious expression, because satisfaction is apparently under duress. What I wish to protest against is the limiting in the Money Resolution of the sum to £300 million, because that will restrict further discussion under the Bill. Once the amount is fixed as a maximum in the Money Resolution, I think I am right in saying it will be quite impossible for any Amendment to be moved in Committee designed to increase the amount of compensation. We have seen, from the discussion we have had, how complex the computations are. We had some interesting calculations from the Minister involving the question of the number of years purchase which should be assumed in making calculations. I am sure the Minister will agree that those are questions which ought to be thrashed out in Committee, and I am sure the Minister would be the first to desire, in Committee, to justify his calculations. If it is quite impossible for the Opposition to put down any Amendments designed to increase the compensation, surely discussion will be gravely handicapped, and indeed, in many cases, be stifled. I hope very much that this Money Resolution can be reconsidered and its terms widened in scope so as to make it possible to have in Committee a real discussion of the question of compensation, in order that the Minister's calculations and other calculations put forward by hon. Members on this side can be seriously considered and understood.
There is a further point to which I wish to refer. Paragraph (c) authorises the raising of money for the purpose of providing sums for the redemption of the stock to be issued in compensation. I want to have an assurance—and perhaps the Financial Secretary will be able to
enable the Minister to give it—that that means that a redeemable stock will be issued, because the Resolution merely authorises money to be provided for the redemption of stocks. I would like to get it quite clear that it is the intention of the Government to issue a redeemable stock in compensation.
Mr Lewis Silkin
, Camberwell Peckham
I will reply to the hon. Member for Sutton Coldfield (Sir J. Mellor). I am sorry he does not like the word "satisfaction." I could hardly say "in dissatisfaction." It is in satisfaction of £300 million; it is not in satisfaction of hon. Members.
Sir John Mellor
, Sutton Coldfield
My point is that they have no option to take cash. They have to take stock in lieu of cash.
Mr Lewis Silkin
, Camberwell Peckham
As to the £300 million, of course it would have been possible, I suppose, theoretically, to have come to the Committee with a Financial Resolution without stating an amount, but I think the Committee would very properly have criticised such a Resolution. The sum of £300 million has been before the House for two days, and every hon. and right hon. Gentleman who has taken part in the Debate has discussed the justification for that figure. The House having voted, I think it can now be taken that the House, by a large Majority, is satisfied that £300 million is the right figure, and therefore, I submit, quite properly, that it goes into the Financial Resolution. On the last point, I think I can give the hon. Gentleman more satisfaction. The stock is redeemable.
| Division No. 64.] | AYES. | [10.30 p,m. |
| Adams, Richard (Balham) | Bechervaise, A. E. | Brown, George (Belper) |
| Adams, W. T. (Hammersmith, South) | Bellenger, Rt. Hon. F. J. | Brown, T. J. (Ince) |
| Allen, A, C. (Bosworth) | Benson, G. | Bruce, Maj. D. W. T. |
| Allen, Scholefield (Crewe) | Berry, H. | Buchanan, G. |
| Allighan, Garry | Beswick, F. | Burden, T. W. |
| Alpass, J. H. | Bevan, Rt. Hon. A. (Ebbw Vale) | Burke, W. A. |
| Anderson, A. (Motherwell) | Bitng, G. H. C. | Butler, H. W. (Hackney, S.) |
| Attewell, H. C. | Binns, J. | Byers, Frank |
| Attlee, Rt. Hon. C. R. | Blenkinsop, A. | Carmichael, James |
| Awbery, S. S. | Blyton, W. R. | Castle, Mrs. B. A. |
| Ayles, W. H. | Boardman, H. | Chamberlain, R. A. |
| Bacon, Miss A. | Bowden, Flg.-Offr. H. W. | Champion, A. J. |
| Baird, J. | Bowles, F. G. (Nuneaton) | Chetwynd, G. R. |
| Barnes, Rt. Hon. A. J. | Braddock, Mrs. E. M. (L'pl, Exch'ge) | Clitherow, Dr. R. |
| Barstow, P. G. | Braddock, T. (Mitcham) | Cocks, F. S. |
| Barton, C. | Bramall, Major E. A. | Coldrick, W |
| Battley, J. R. | Brooks, T. J. (Rothwell) | Collick, P. |
| Collindridge, F. | Hughes, Hector (Aberdeen, N.) | Proctor, W. T. |
| Collins, V. J. | Hughes, H. D. (W'lverh'pton, W.) | Pursey, Cmdr. H. |
| Colman, Miss G. M. | Hutchinson, H. L. (Rusholme) | Randall, H. E. |
| Comyns, Dr. L. | Hynd, H. (Hackney, C.) | Ranger, J. |
| Cook, T. F. | Hynd, Rt. Hon. J. B. (Attercliffe) | Rankin, J. |
| Cooper, Wing-Comdr. G. | Irving, W. J. | Rees-Williams, D. R. |
| Corbet, Mrs. F. K. (Camb'well, N.W) | ||
| Corlett, Dr J. | Janner, B. | Reid, T. (Swindon) |
| Corvedale, Viscount | Jay, D. P. T. | Rhodes, H. |
| Cove, W. G. | Jeger, G. (Winchester) | Richards, R. |
| Crawley, A. | Jeger, Dr. S. W. (St. Pancras, S.E.) | Ridealgh, Mrs. M. |
| Cripps, Rt. Hon. Sir S. | Jones, Rt. Hon. A. C. (Shipley) | Robens, A. |
| Crossman, R. H. S. | Jones, D. T. (Hartlepools) | Roberts, Emrys (Merioneth) |
| Daggar, G. | Jones, Elwyn (Plaistow) | Roberts, Goronwy (Caernarvonshire) |
| Daines, P. | Jones, P. Asterley (Hitchin) | Roberts, W. (Cumberland, N.) |
| Dalton, Rt. Hon. H. | Keenan, W. | Robertson, J. J. (Berwick) |
| Davies, Clement (Montgomery) | Kendall, W. D. | Rogers, G. H. R. |
| Davies, Edward (Burslem) | Kenyon, C. | Ross, William (Kilmarnock) |
| Davies, Ernest (Enfield) | Key, C. W. | Royle, C. |
| Davies, Harold (Leek) | King, E. M. | Sargood, R. |
| Davies, Hadyn (St. Pancras, S.W.) | Kinley, J. | Scollan, T. |
| Davies, R. J. (Westhoughton) | Kirby, B. V. | Scott-Elliot, W. |
| Davies, S. O. (Merthyr) | Lang, G. | Shackleton, Wing.-Cdr. E. A. A. |
| Deer, G. | Lavers, S | Sharp, Granville |
| Delargy, Captain H. J. | Lee, F. (Hulme) | Shawcross, C. N. (Widnes) |
| Diamond, J. | Lee, Miss J. (Cannock) | Shawcross, Rt. Hn. Sir H. (St. Helens) |
| Dobbie, W. | Leonard, W. | Shurmer, P. |
| Dodds, N. N. | Lever, N. H. | Silkin, Rt. Hon. L. |
| Donovan, T. | Levy, B. W | Silverman, J. (Erdington) |
| Driberg, T. E. N. | Lewis, A. W. J. (Upton) | Silverman, S. S. (Nelson) |
| Dugdale, J. (W. Bromwich) | Lewis T (Southampton) | Skeffington, A. M. |
| Durbin, E. F. M. | Lindgren, G. S. | Skeffington-Lodge, T. C. |
| Dye, S. | Lipson, D. L. | Smith, C. (Colchester) |
| Ede, Rt. Hon. J. C. | Lipton, Lt.-Col. M. | Smith, S. H. (Hull, S.W.) |
| Edelman, M. | Logan, D. G. | Solley, L. J. |
| Edwards, John (Blackburn) | Longdan, F. | Sorensen, R. W. |
| Edwards, N. (Caerphilly) | Lyne, A. W. | Soskice, Maj. Sir F. |
| Edwards, W. J. (Whiteehapel) | McAdam, W. | Sparks, J. A. |
| Evans, E. (Lowestoft) | McAllister, G. | Stamford, W. |
| Evans, S. N. (Wednesbury) | Mack, J. D. | Steele, T. |
| Ewart, R. | McKay, J. (Wallsend) | Stewart, Michael (Fulham, E.) |
| Fairhurst, F. | Mackay, R. W. G. (Hull, N.W.) | Strauss, G. R. (Lambeth, N.) |
| Farthing, W. J. | McKinlay, A. S. | Stross, Dr. B. |
| Field, Capt. W. J. | McLeavy, F. | Stubbs, A. E. |
| Fletcher, E. G. M. (Islington, E.) | MacMillan, M. K. (Western Isles) | Swingler, S. |
| Follick, M. | Mallalieu, J. P. W. | Symonds, A. L. |
| Fool, M. M. | Mann, Mrs. J. | Taylor, H. B. (Mansfield) |
| Forman, J. C. | Manning C (Camberwell, N.) | Taylor, R. J. (Morpeth) |
| Fraser, T. (Hamilton) | Manning, Mrs. L. (Epping) | Taylor, Dr. S. (Barnet) |
| Freeman, Maj. J. (Watford) | Marshall, F. (Brightside) | Thomas, D. E. (Aberdare) |
| Freeman, Peter (Newport) | Mathers, G. | Thomas, I. O. (Wrekin) |
| Gaitskell, H. T. N. | Medland, H. M. | Thomas, John R. (Dover) |
| Ganley, Mrs. C. S. | Mellish, R. J. | Thomson, Rt. Hon. G. R. (Ed'b'gh, E.) |
| George, Lady M. Lloyd (Anglesey) | Middleton, Mrs. L. | Thorneycroft, Harry (Clayton) |
| Gibbins, J. | Mikardo, Ian | Thurtle, E. |
| Gibson, C. W. | Millington, Wing-Comdr. E. R. | Tiffany, S. |
| Gilzean, A. | Mitchison, Maj. G. R | Timmons, J. |
| Goodrich, H. E. | Monslow, W. | Titlerington, M. F. |
| Greenwood, Rt. Hon. A. (Wakefield) | Moody, A. S. | Tolley, L. |
| Greenwood, A. W. J. (Heywood) | Morley, R. | Tomlinson, Rt. Hon. G. |
| Grenfell, D. R. | Morris, P. (Swansea, W.) | Tuner-Samuels, M. |
| Grey, C. F. | Mort, D. L. | Usborne, Henry |
| Grierson, E. | Moyle, A. | Vernon, Maj. W. F. |
| Griffiths, D. (Rother Valley) | Murray, J. D. | Viant, S. P. |
| Griffiths, Rt. Hon. J. (Llanelly) | Neal, H. (Claycross) | Wadsworth, G. |
| Gunter, R. J. | Nichol, Mrs M. E. (Bradford, N) | Walkden, E. |
| Guy, W. H. | Nicholls, H. R. (Stratford) | Walker, G. H. |
| Haire, John E. (Wycombe) | Noel-Baker, Capt. F. E. (Brentford) | Wallace, G. D. (Chislehurst) |
| Hale, Leslie | Noel-Buxton, Lady | Wallace, H. W. (Walthamstow, E.) |
| Hall, W. C, | O'Brien, T. | Warbey, W. N. |
| Hamilton, Lieut.-Col. R. | Oldfield, W. H. | Watkins, T. E. |
| Hannan, W. (Maryhill) | Oliver, G. H. | Watson, W. M. |
| Hardman, D. R. | Orbach, M. | Weitzman, D. |
| Hardy, E. A. | Paling, Rt. Hon. Wilfred (Wentworth) | Wells, P. L. (Faversham) |
| Harrison, J. | Palmer, A. M. F. | Wells, W. T. (Walsall) |
| Hastings, Dr. Somerville | Pargiter, G. A. | West, D. G. |
| Henderson, A. (Kingswinford) | Parker, J. | Whiteley, Rt. Hon. W. |
| Henderson, Joseph (Ardwick) | Parkin, B. T. | Wigg, Col. G. E. |
| Herbison, Miss M. | Paton, J. (Norwich) | Wilcock, Group-Capt. C. A. B. |
| Hewitson, Capt. M. | Pearson, A. | Wilkes, L. |
| Hobson, C. R. | Peart, Capt. T. F. | Willey, F. T. (Sunderland) |
| Holman, P. | Piratin, P. | Willey, O. G. (Cleveland) |
| Holmes, H. E. (Hemsworth) | Plaits-Mills, J. F. F. | Williams, D. J. (Neath) |
| House, G. | Poole, Major Cecil (Lichfield) | Williams, W. R. (Heston) |
| Hoy, J. | Popplewell, E. | Wills, Mrs E. A. |
| Hudson, J. H. (Ealing, W.) | Porter, G. (Leeds) | Wilmot, Rt. Hon. J. |
| Wilson, J. H. | Wyatt, W. | |
| Wise, Major F. J. | Yates, V. F. | TELLERS FOR THE AYES: |
| Woodburn, A. | Younger, Hon. Kenneth | Mr. Snow and Mr. Simmons. |
| Woods, G. S. | Zilliacus, K. | |
| NOES. | ||
| Agnew, Cmdr. P. G. | Gage, C. | Mellor, Sir J. |
| Aitken, Hon. Max | Galbraith, Cmdr. T. D. | Morrison, Maj. J. G. (Salisbury) |
| Amory, D. Heathcoat | Gammans, L. D. | Morrison, Rt. Hon. W. S. (Cirencester) |
| Assheton, Rt. Hon. R. | Gomme-Duncan, Col. A. G. | Mott-Radclyffe, Maj. C. E. |
| Baldwin, A. E. | Grant, Lady | Neven-Spence, Sir B. |
| Beamish, Maj. T. V. H. | Gridley, Sir A. | Nicholson, G. |
| Beechman, N. A. | Grimston, R. V. | Noble, Comdr. A. H. P. |
| Bennett, Sir P. | Hare, Hon. J. H. (Woodbridge) | Nutting, Anthony |
| Boles, Lt.-Col. D. C. (Wells) | Harvey, Air-Comdre. A. V. | Orr-Ewing, I. L. |
| Boothby, R. | Haughton, S. G. | Osborne, C. |
| Bossom, A. C. | Head, Brig. A. H. | Peto, Brig. C. H. M. |
| Bower, N. | Headlam, Lieut.-Col. Rt Hon. Sir C | Pitman, I, J. |
| Boyd-Carpenter, J. A. | Hinchingbrooke, Viscount | Poole, O. B. S. (Oswestry) |
| Braithwaite, Lt.-Comdr. J. G. | Hogg, Hon. Q. | Price-White, Lt.-Col. D. |
| Bromley-Davenport, Lt.-Col. W | Hollis, M. C. | Prior-Palmer, Brig. O. |
| Buchan-Hepburn, P. G. T. | Hope, Lord J. | Rayner, Brig. R. |
| Bullock, Capt. M. | Hurd, A. | Renton, D. |
| Butcher, H. W. | Hutchison, Col. J. R. (Glasgow, C.) | Roberts, H. (Handsworth) |
| Butler, Rt. Hon. R. A. (S'ffr'n W'ld'n) | Jeffreys, General Sir G. | Roberts, Maj. P. G. (Ecclesall) |
| Carson, E. | Joynson-Hicks, Lt.-Cdr. Hon. L. W. | Ropner, Col. L. |
| Challen, C. | Kerr, Sir J. Graham | Sanderson, Sir F |
| Channon, H. | Kingsmill, Lt.-Col. W. H. | Smith, E. P. (Ashford) |
| Clarke, Col. R. S. | Lambert, Hon. G. | Stuart, Rt. Hon. J. (Moray) |
| Clifton-Brown, Lt.-Col. G. | Langford-Holt, J. | Sutcliffe, H. |
| Cooper-Key, E. M. | Law, Rt. Hon. R. K. | Taylor, C. S. (Eastbourne) |
| Corbet, Lieut.-Col. U. (Ludlow) | Lennox-Boyd, A. T. | Taylor, Vice-Adm. E. A. (P'dd't'n, S.) |
| Crookshank, Capt. Rt. Hon. H. F. C. | Linstead, H. N. | Teeling, William |
| Crosthwaite-Eyrc, Col. O. E. | Lloyd, Maj. Guy (Renfrew, E.) | Thomas, J. P. L. (Hereford) |
| Crowder, Capt. John E. | Lucas, Major Sir J. | Thornton-Kemsley, C. N. |
| Darling, Sir W. Y. | Lucas-Tooth, Sir H. | Thorp, Lt.-Col. R. A. F. |
| Davidson, Viscountess | MacAndrew, Col. Sir C. | Touche, G. C. |
| De la Bère, R. | McCallum, Maj. D. | Turton, R. H. |
| Digby, S. W. | Macdonald, Sir P. (I. of Wight) | Vane, W. M. F. |
| Dodds-Parker, A. D. | Mackeson, Brig. H. R. | Walker-Smith, D. |
| Donner, Sqn.-Ldr. P. W. | Maclay, Hon. J. S. | Wheatley, Colonel M. J. |
| Dower, E. L. G. (Caithness) | Macpherson, Maj. N. (Dumfries) | White, J. B. (Canterbury) |
| Dray son, G. B. | Maitland, Comdr. J. W. | Williams, C. (Torquay) |
| Drewe, C. | Manningham-Buller, R. E. | Young, Sir A. S. L. (Partick) |
| Dugdale, Mai. Sir T. (Richmond) | Marlowe, A. A. H. | |
| Fleming, Sqn.-Ldr. E. L. | Marsden, Capt. A. | TELLERS FOR THE NOES: |
| Foster, J. G. (Northwich) | Marshall, D. (Bodmin) | Major Conant and Major Ramsay. |
| Fyfe, Rt. Hon. Sir D. P. M. | Maude, J. C. | |
Question put, and agreed to.
Ministers make up the Government and almost all are members of the House of Lords or the House of Commons. There are three main types of Minister. Departmental Ministers are in charge of Government Departments. The Government is divided into different Departments which have responsibilities for different areas. For example the Treasury is in charge of Government spending. Departmental Ministers in the Cabinet are generally called 'Secretary of State' but some have special titles such as Chancellor of the Exchequer. Ministers of State and Junior Ministers assist the ministers in charge of the department. They normally have responsibility for a particular area within the department and are sometimes given a title that reflects this - for example Minister of Transport.
As a bill passes through Parliament, MPs and peers may suggest amendments - or changes - which they believe will improve the quality of the legislation.
Many hundreds of amendments are proposed by members to major bills as they pass through committee stage, report stage and third reading in both Houses of Parliament.
In the end only a handful of amendments will be incorporated into any bill.
The Speaker - or the chairman in the case of standing committees - has the power to select which amendments should be debated.
As a bill passes through Parliament, MPs and peers may suggest amendments - or changes - which they believe will improve the quality of the legislation.
Many hundreds of amendments are proposed by members to major bills as they pass through committee stage, report stage and third reading in both Houses of Parliament.
In the end only a handful of amendments will be incorporated into any bill.
The Speaker - or the chairman in the case of standing committees - has the power to select which amendments should be debated.
The Opposition are the political parties in the House of Commons other than the largest or Government party. They are called the Opposition because they sit on the benches opposite the Government in the House of Commons Chamber. The largest of the Opposition parties is known as Her Majesty's Opposition. The role of the Official Opposition is to question and scrutinise the work of Government. The Opposition often votes against the Government. In a sense the Official Opposition is the "Government in waiting".
The term "majority" is used in two ways in Parliament. Firstly a Government cannot operate effectively unless it can command a majority in the House of Commons - a majority means winning more than 50% of the votes in a division. Should a Government fail to hold the confidence of the House, it has to hold a General Election. Secondly the term can also be used in an election, where it refers to the margin which the candidate with the most votes has over the candidate coming second. To win a seat a candidate need only have a majority of 1.
The House of Commons votes by dividing. Those voting Aye (yes) to any proposition walk through the division lobby to the right of the Speaker and those voting no through the lobby to the left. In each of the lobbies there are desks occupied by Clerks who tick Members' names off division lists as they pass through. Then at the exit doors the Members are counted by two Members acting as tellers. The Speaker calls for a vote by announcing "Clear the Lobbies". In the House of Lords "Clear the Bar" is called. Division Bells ring throughout the building and the police direct all Strangers to leave the vicinity of the Members’ Lobby. They also walk through the public rooms of the House shouting "division". MPs have eight minutes to get to the Division Lobby before the doors are closed. Members make their way to the Chamber, where Whips are on hand to remind the uncertain which way, if any, their party is voting. Meanwhile the Clerks who will take the names of those voting have taken their place at the high tables with the alphabetical lists of MPs' names on which ticks are made to record the vote. When the tellers are ready the counting process begins - the recording of names by the Clerk and the counting of heads by the tellers. When both lobbies have been counted and the figures entered on a card this is given to the Speaker who reads the figures and announces "So the Ayes [or Noes] have it". In the House of Lords the process is the same except that the Lobbies are called the Contents Lobby and the Not Contents Lobby. Unlike many other legislatures, the House of Commons and the House of Lords have not adopted a mechanical or electronic means of voting. This was considered in 1998 but rejected. Divisions rarely take less than ten minutes and those where most Members are voting usually take about fifteen. Further information can be obtained from factsheet P9 at the UK Parliament site.