– in the House of Commons am 12:00 am ar 30 Ionawr 1947.
Motion made, and Question proposed,
That, for the purpose of any Act of the present Session to make fresh provision for planning the development and use of land, and for purposes connected therewith (in this resolution referred to as 'the Act'), it is expedient to authorise—
A. The charging on the Consolidated Fund of the principal of and interest on stock to be issued under the Act in satisfaction of payments to be made thereunder in respect of interests in land which are depreciated in value by virtue of the provisions of the Act (not exceeding in the aggregate, together with payments to be made by virtue of any corresponding provisions which may be enacted in relation to Scotland, the sum of three hundred million pounds); the charging on and issuing out of that Fund of expenses in connection with the issue and management of any such stock; and the issuing out of that Fund of sums necessary to enable the Central Land Board to be established under the Act (in this resolution referred to as 'the Board ') to pay interest on any such payments pending the satisfaction thereof.
B. The issuing out of the Consolidated Fund of sums necessary to enable the Board to make other payments under the Act in respect of interests in land which are depreciated as aforesaid, being land which has sustained war damage in such circumstances that the appropriate payment under the War Damage Act, 1943, is a value payment, and to pay interest on such payments pending the satisfaction therof.
C. The raising of money by the Treasury, in any manner in which they are authorised to raise money under the National Loans Act, 1939,—
D. The payment by the Board into the Exchequer, out of moneys provided by Parliament, of annual instalments equal in the aggregate to the aggregate amount of—
together with interest on the said aggregate amount; and the issue out of the Consolidated Fund of sums so paid into the Exchequer, and their application in redemption or repayment of debt or, in so far as they represent interest, in payment of interest otherwise payable out of the permanent annual charge for the National Debt.E. The payment out of moneys provided by Parliament of expenses incurred by the Minister of Town and Country Planning (in this resolution referred to as "the Minister") in making grants, in accordance with regulations made under the Act, as follows, that is to say:
not exceeding sixty per cent. of the amount of the expenditure or loss in respect of which the grants are made;F. The payment out of moneys provided by Parliament of the following expenditure, that is to say:—
G. The payment into the Exchequer of any sums received by the Board in respect of the disposal of land acquired by the Board under powers conferred in that behalf by the Act and of any sums received by the Board, in accordance with arrangements made under the Act in respect of Crown Land, in substitution for development charges thereunder."—[Mr. Silkin.]—(King's Recommendation Signified.)
I wish to make some reference to this Money Resolution. In regard to paragraph A, this authorises
The charging on the Consolidated Fund of the principal of and interest on stock to be issued under the Act in satisfaction of payments to be made thereunder … not exceeding £300 million.
First of all, I think that the word "satisfaction" is rather a curious expression, because satisfaction is apparently under duress. What I wish to protest against is the limiting in the Money Resolution of the sum to £300 million, because that will restrict further discussion under the Bill. Once the amount is fixed as a maximum in the Money Resolution, I think I am right in saying it will be quite impossible for any Amendment to be moved in Committee designed to increase the amount of compensation. We have seen, from the discussion we have had, how complex the computations are. We had some interesting calculations from the Minister involving the question of the number of years purchase which should be assumed in making calculations. I am sure the Minister will agree that those are questions which ought to be thrashed out in Committee, and I am sure the Minister would be the first to desire, in Committee, to justify his calculations. If it is quite impossible for the Opposition to put down any Amendments designed to increase the compensation, surely discussion will be gravely handicapped, and indeed, in many cases, be stifled. I hope very much that this Money Resolution can be reconsidered and its terms widened in scope so as to make it possible to have in Committee a real discussion of the question of compensation, in order that the Minister's calculations and other calculations put forward by hon. Members on this side can be seriously considered and understood.
There is a further point to which I wish to refer. Paragraph (c) authorises the raising of money for the purpose of providing sums for the redemption of the stock to be issued in compensation. I want to have an assurance—and perhaps the Financial Secretary will be able to
enable the Minister to give it—that that means that a redeemable stock will be issued, because the Resolution merely authorises money to be provided for the redemption of stocks. I would like to get it quite clear that it is the intention of the Government to issue a redeemable stock in compensation.
I will reply to the hon. Member for Sutton Coldfield (Sir J. Mellor). I am sorry he does not like the word "satisfaction." I could hardly say "in dissatisfaction." It is in satisfaction of £300 million; it is not in satisfaction of hon. Members.
My point is that they have no option to take cash. They have to take stock in lieu of cash.
As to the £300 million, of course it would have been possible, I suppose, theoretically, to have come to the Committee with a Financial Resolution without stating an amount, but I think the Committee would very properly have criticised such a Resolution. The sum of £300 million has been before the House for two days, and every hon. and right hon. Gentleman who has taken part in the Debate has discussed the justification for that figure. The House having voted, I think it can now be taken that the House, by a large majority, is satisfied that £300 million is the right figure, and therefore, I submit, quite properly, that it goes into the Financial Resolution. On the last point, I think I can give the hon. Gentleman more satisfaction. The stock is redeemable.
Division No. 64.] | AYES. | [10.30 p,m. |
Adams, Richard (Balham) | Bechervaise, A. E. | Brown, George (Belper) |
Adams, W. T. (Hammersmith, South) | Bellenger, Rt. Hon. F. J. | Brown, T. J. (Ince) |
Allen, A, C. (Bosworth) | Benson, G. | Bruce, Maj. D. W. T. |
Allen, Scholefield (Crewe) | Berry, H. | Buchanan, G. |
Allighan, Garry | Beswick, F. | Burden, T. W. |
Alpass, J. H. | Bevan, Rt. Hon. A. (Ebbw Vale) | Burke, W. A. |
Anderson, A. (Motherwell) | Bitng, G. H. C. | Butler, H. W. (Hackney, S.) |
Attewell, H. C. | Binns, J. | Byers, Frank |
Attlee, Rt. Hon. C. R. | Blenkinsop, A. | Carmichael, James |
Awbery, S. S. | Blyton, W. R. | Castle, Mrs. B. A. |
Ayles, W. H. | Boardman, H. | Chamberlain, R. A. |
Bacon, Miss A. | Bowden, Flg.-Offr. H. W. | Champion, A. J. |
Baird, J. | Bowles, F. G. (Nuneaton) | Chetwynd, G. R. |
Barnes, Rt. Hon. A. J. | Braddock, Mrs. E. M. (L'pl, Exch'ge) | Clitherow, Dr. R. |
Barstow, P. G. | Braddock, T. (Mitcham) | Cocks, F. S. |
Barton, C. | Bramall, Major E. A. | Coldrick, W |
Battley, J. R. | Brooks, T. J. (Rothwell) | Collick, P. |
Collindridge, F. | Hughes, Hector (Aberdeen, N.) | Proctor, W. T. |
Collins, V. J. | Hughes, H. D. (W'lverh'pton, W.) | Pursey, Cmdr. H. |
Colman, Miss G. M. | Hutchinson, H. L. (Rusholme) | Randall, H. E. |
Comyns, Dr. L. | Hynd, H. (Hackney, C.) | Ranger, J. |
Cook, T. F. | Hynd, Rt. Hon. J. B. (Attercliffe) | Rankin, J. |
Cooper, Wing-Comdr. G. | Irving, W. J. | Rees-Williams, D. R. |
Corbet, Mrs. F. K. (Camb'well, N.W) | ||
Corlett, Dr J. | Janner, B. | Reid, T. (Swindon) |
Corvedale, Viscount | Jay, D. P. T. | Rhodes, H. |
Cove, W. G. | Jeger, G. (Winchester) | Richards, R. |
Crawley, A. | Jeger, Dr. S. W. (St. Pancras, S.E.) | Ridealgh, Mrs. M. |
Cripps, Rt. Hon. Sir S. | Jones, Rt. Hon. A. C. (Shipley) | Robens, A. |
Crossman, R. H. S. | Jones, D. T. (Hartlepools) | Roberts, Emrys (Merioneth) |
Daggar, G. | Jones, Elwyn (Plaistow) | Roberts, Goronwy (Caernarvonshire) |
Daines, P. | Jones, P. Asterley (Hitchin) | Roberts, W. (Cumberland, N.) |
Dalton, Rt. Hon. H. | Keenan, W. | Robertson, J. J. (Berwick) |
Davies, Clement (Montgomery) | Kendall, W. D. | Rogers, G. H. R. |
Davies, Edward (Burslem) | Kenyon, C. | Ross, William (Kilmarnock) |
Davies, Ernest (Enfield) | Key, C. W. | Royle, C. |
Davies, Harold (Leek) | King, E. M. | Sargood, R. |
Davies, Hadyn (St. Pancras, S.W.) | Kinley, J. | Scollan, T. |
Davies, R. J. (Westhoughton) | Kirby, B. V. | Scott-Elliot, W. |
Davies, S. O. (Merthyr) | Lang, G. | Shackleton, Wing.-Cdr. E. A. A. |
Deer, G. | Lavers, S | Sharp, Granville |
Delargy, Captain H. J. | Lee, F. (Hulme) | Shawcross, C. N. (Widnes) |
Diamond, J. | Lee, Miss J. (Cannock) | Shawcross, Rt. Hn. Sir H. (St. Helens) |
Dobbie, W. | Leonard, W. | Shurmer, P. |
Dodds, N. N. | Lever, N. H. | Silkin, Rt. Hon. L. |
Donovan, T. | Levy, B. W | Silverman, J. (Erdington) |
Driberg, T. E. N. | Lewis, A. W. J. (Upton) | Silverman, S. S. (Nelson) |
Dugdale, J. (W. Bromwich) | Lewis T (Southampton) | Skeffington, A. M. |
Durbin, E. F. M. | Lindgren, G. S. | Skeffington-Lodge, T. C. |
Dye, S. | Lipson, D. L. | Smith, C. (Colchester) |
Ede, Rt. Hon. J. C. | Lipton, Lt.-Col. M. | Smith, S. H. (Hull, S.W.) |
Edelman, M. | Logan, D. G. | Solley, L. J. |
Edwards, John (Blackburn) | Longdan, F. | Sorensen, R. W. |
Edwards, N. (Caerphilly) | Lyne, A. W. | Soskice, Maj. Sir F. |
Edwards, W. J. (Whiteehapel) | McAdam, W. | Sparks, J. A. |
Evans, E. (Lowestoft) | McAllister, G. | Stamford, W. |
Evans, S. N. (Wednesbury) | Mack, J. D. | Steele, T. |
Ewart, R. | McKay, J. (Wallsend) | Stewart, Michael (Fulham, E.) |
Fairhurst, F. | Mackay, R. W. G. (Hull, N.W.) | Strauss, G. R. (Lambeth, N.) |
Farthing, W. J. | McKinlay, A. S. | Stross, Dr. B. |
Field, Capt. W. J. | McLeavy, F. | Stubbs, A. E. |
Fletcher, E. G. M. (Islington, E.) | MacMillan, M. K. (Western Isles) | Swingler, S. |
Follick, M. | Mallalieu, J. P. W. | Symonds, A. L. |
Fool, M. M. | Mann, Mrs. J. | Taylor, H. B. (Mansfield) |
Forman, J. C. | Manning C (Camberwell, N.) | Taylor, R. J. (Morpeth) |
Fraser, T. (Hamilton) | Manning, Mrs. L. (Epping) | Taylor, Dr. S. (Barnet) |
Freeman, Maj. J. (Watford) | Marshall, F. (Brightside) | Thomas, D. E. (Aberdare) |
Freeman, Peter (Newport) | Mathers, G. | Thomas, I. O. (Wrekin) |
Gaitskell, H. T. N. | Medland, H. M. | Thomas, John R. (Dover) |
Ganley, Mrs. C. S. | Mellish, R. J. | Thomson, Rt. Hon. G. R. (Ed'b'gh, E.) |
George, Lady M. Lloyd (Anglesey) | Middleton, Mrs. L. | Thorneycroft, Harry (Clayton) |
Gibbins, J. | Mikardo, Ian | Thurtle, E. |
Gibson, C. W. | Millington, Wing-Comdr. E. R. | Tiffany, S. |
Gilzean, A. | Mitchison, Maj. G. R | Timmons, J. |
Goodrich, H. E. | Monslow, W. | Titlerington, M. F. |
Greenwood, Rt. Hon. A. (Wakefield) | Moody, A. S. | Tolley, L. |
Greenwood, A. W. J. (Heywood) | Morley, R. | Tomlinson, Rt. Hon. G. |
Grenfell, D. R. | Morris, P. (Swansea, W.) | Tuner-Samuels, M. |
Grey, C. F. | Mort, D. L. | Usborne, Henry |
Grierson, E. | Moyle, A. | Vernon, Maj. W. F. |
Griffiths, D. (Rother Valley) | Murray, J. D. | Viant, S. P. |
Griffiths, Rt. Hon. J. (Llanelly) | Neal, H. (Claycross) | Wadsworth, G. |
Gunter, R. J. | Nichol, Mrs M. E. (Bradford, N) | Walkden, E. |
Guy, W. H. | Nicholls, H. R. (Stratford) | Walker, G. H. |
Haire, John E. (Wycombe) | Noel-Baker, Capt. F. E. (Brentford) | Wallace, G. D. (Chislehurst) |
Hale, Leslie | Noel-Buxton, Lady | Wallace, H. W. (Walthamstow, E.) |
Hall, W. C, | O'Brien, T. | Warbey, W. N. |
Hamilton, Lieut.-Col. R. | Oldfield, W. H. | Watkins, T. E. |
Hannan, W. (Maryhill) | Oliver, G. H. | Watson, W. M. |
Hardman, D. R. | Orbach, M. | Weitzman, D. |
Hardy, E. A. | Paling, Rt. Hon. Wilfred (Wentworth) | Wells, P. L. (Faversham) |
Harrison, J. | Palmer, A. M. F. | Wells, W. T. (Walsall) |
Hastings, Dr. Somerville | Pargiter, G. A. | West, D. G. |
Henderson, A. (Kingswinford) | Parker, J. | Whiteley, Rt. Hon. W. |
Henderson, Joseph (Ardwick) | Parkin, B. T. | Wigg, Col. G. E. |
Herbison, Miss M. | Paton, J. (Norwich) | Wilcock, Group-Capt. C. A. B. |
Hewitson, Capt. M. | Pearson, A. | Wilkes, L. |
Hobson, C. R. | Peart, Capt. T. F. | Willey, F. T. (Sunderland) |
Holman, P. | Piratin, P. | Willey, O. G. (Cleveland) |
Holmes, H. E. (Hemsworth) | Plaits-Mills, J. F. F. | Williams, D. J. (Neath) |
House, G. | Poole, Major Cecil (Lichfield) | Williams, W. R. (Heston) |
Hoy, J. | Popplewell, E. | Wills, Mrs E. A. |
Hudson, J. H. (Ealing, W.) | Porter, G. (Leeds) | Wilmot, Rt. Hon. J. |
Wilson, J. H. | Wyatt, W. | |
Wise, Major F. J. | Yates, V. F. | TELLERS FOR THE AYES: |
Woodburn, A. | Younger, Hon. Kenneth | Mr. Snow and Mr. Simmons. |
Woods, G. S. | Zilliacus, K. | |
NOES. | ||
Agnew, Cmdr. P. G. | Gage, C. | Mellor, Sir J. |
Aitken, Hon. Max | Galbraith, Cmdr. T. D. | Morrison, Maj. J. G. (Salisbury) |
Amory, D. Heathcoat | Gammans, L. D. | Morrison, Rt. Hon. W. S. (Cirencester) |
Assheton, Rt. Hon. R. | Gomme-Duncan, Col. A. G. | Mott-Radclyffe, Maj. C. E. |
Baldwin, A. E. | Grant, Lady | Neven-Spence, Sir B. |
Beamish, Maj. T. V. H. | Gridley, Sir A. | Nicholson, G. |
Beechman, N. A. | Grimston, R. V. | Noble, Comdr. A. H. P. |
Bennett, Sir P. | Hare, Hon. J. H. (Woodbridge) | Nutting, Anthony |
Boles, Lt.-Col. D. C. (Wells) | Harvey, Air-Comdre. A. V. | Orr-Ewing, I. L. |
Boothby, R. | Haughton, S. G. | Osborne, C. |
Bossom, A. C. | Head, Brig. A. H. | Peto, Brig. C. H. M. |
Bower, N. | Headlam, Lieut.-Col. Rt Hon. Sir C | Pitman, I, J. |
Boyd-Carpenter, J. A. | Hinchingbrooke, Viscount | Poole, O. B. S. (Oswestry) |
Braithwaite, Lt.-Comdr. J. G. | Hogg, Hon. Q. | Price-White, Lt.-Col. D. |
Bromley-Davenport, Lt.-Col. W | Hollis, M. C. | Prior-Palmer, Brig. O. |
Buchan-Hepburn, P. G. T. | Hope, Lord J. | Rayner, Brig. R. |
Bullock, Capt. M. | Hurd, A. | Renton, D. |
Butcher, H. W. | Hutchison, Col. J. R. (Glasgow, C.) | Roberts, H. (Handsworth) |
Butler, Rt. Hon. R. A. (S'ffr'n W'ld'n) | Jeffreys, General Sir G. | Roberts, Maj. P. G. (Ecclesall) |
Carson, E. | Joynson-Hicks, Lt.-Cdr. Hon. L. W. | Ropner, Col. L. |
Challen, C. | Kerr, Sir J. Graham | Sanderson, Sir F |
Channon, H. | Kingsmill, Lt.-Col. W. H. | Smith, E. P. (Ashford) |
Clarke, Col. R. S. | Lambert, Hon. G. | Stuart, Rt. Hon. J. (Moray) |
Clifton-Brown, Lt.-Col. G. | Langford-Holt, J. | Sutcliffe, H. |
Cooper-Key, E. M. | Law, Rt. Hon. R. K. | Taylor, C. S. (Eastbourne) |
Corbet, Lieut.-Col. U. (Ludlow) | Lennox-Boyd, A. T. | Taylor, Vice-Adm. E. A. (P'dd't'n, S.) |
Crookshank, Capt. Rt. Hon. H. F. C. | Linstead, H. N. | Teeling, William |
Crosthwaite-Eyrc, Col. O. E. | Lloyd, Maj. Guy (Renfrew, E.) | Thomas, J. P. L. (Hereford) |
Crowder, Capt. John E. | Lucas, Major Sir J. | Thornton-Kemsley, C. N. |
Darling, Sir W. Y. | Lucas-Tooth, Sir H. | Thorp, Lt.-Col. R. A. F. |
Davidson, Viscountess | MacAndrew, Col. Sir C. | Touche, G. C. |
De la Bère, R. | McCallum, Maj. D. | Turton, R. H. |
Digby, S. W. | Macdonald, Sir P. (I. of Wight) | Vane, W. M. F. |
Dodds-Parker, A. D. | Mackeson, Brig. H. R. | Walker-Smith, D. |
Donner, Sqn.-Ldr. P. W. | Maclay, Hon. J. S. | Wheatley, Colonel M. J. |
Dower, E. L. G. (Caithness) | Macpherson, Maj. N. (Dumfries) | White, J. B. (Canterbury) |
Dray son, G. B. | Maitland, Comdr. J. W. | Williams, C. (Torquay) |
Drewe, C. | Manningham-Buller, R. E. | Young, Sir A. S. L. (Partick) |
Dugdale, Mai. Sir T. (Richmond) | Marlowe, A. A. H. | |
Fleming, Sqn.-Ldr. E. L. | Marsden, Capt. A. | TELLERS FOR THE NOES: |
Foster, J. G. (Northwich) | Marshall, D. (Bodmin) | Major Conant and Major Ramsay. |
Fyfe, Rt. Hon. Sir D. P. M. | Maude, J. C. |
Question put, and agreed to.