Order for Second reading read.

3.24 p.m.

I beg to move, "That the Bill be now read a Second time."

Yesterday I gave the Committee of Ways and Means a description of what this Bill does, and I do not think it necessary to amplify that description today. It would, however, only be courteous to answer the specific questions which were put to me by spokesmen of the parties opposite. I take, first, the smaller point which was put by the hon. Baronet the Member for South-West Bethnal Green (Sir P. Harris), who asked what was to be the position of the members and the staff of the Import Duties Advisory Committee if this Bill passed into law, with the result that there was nothing for them to do. The answer is that the staff will be used; some of its members have already been seconded to other Departments, principally to the Ministry of Supply, where their qualifications will obviously be very valuable. As regards the members of the Committee, I, too, on behalf of the Government, would like to pay a tribute to the work which the Committee have done over a long period of time. We trust that, before long, all this legislation will come to an end and that circumstances may allow them to resume their suspended activities and a work which has been of great value to the nation. For the moment, however, as a result of this Bill, that work will be suspended, and it is the intention of the Government that the experience and the service of the individual members shall be made available in other directions. I cannot say exactly how they will be occupied, but the House can take it that the ability, assiduity, and hard work which they have shown as members of the Committee will be made available to the State in other capacities during the war.

The right hon. Gentleman the Member for Hillsborough (Mr. Alexander) asked me several questions. Important as his points were, about which he asked for an assurance, they did not appear to be related to this Bill. This Bill is to suspend the statutory functions of the Import Duties Advisory Committee. The right hon. Gentleman was asking about matters of very high policy, and, therefore, in what I have to say I have to be careful lest I go too far and invite reproof from you, Mr. Speaker.

I do not want the right hon. and gallant Gentleman to say anything which ought not to be said on this occasion, but I do not agree with his interpretation. The Government have gone to the extent of asking for special powers with regard to a certain class of goods in Clause 2 of the Bill, and there is no reason why they should not have sought powers in regard to other matters, if necessary.

The powers referred to in Clause 2 are powers which were dealt with in existing legislation. What I wanted to point out was that if the right hon. Gentleman was talking about the importation of foods which are taxed, such as sugar, that is not concerned with this Bill at all. There he is raising questions of a Budgetary character which it would not be proper to discuss now, and even if it were proper to discuss them now, I would not be the proper person to open up that field of discussion at this stage. My right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the exchequer would have to do it. Of course, the policy of the Government in regard to the importation of foodstuffs in war time must have regard to all considerations, among which must be included the need to raise revenue, and I do not think I can take it further to-day.

But if the right hon. Gentleman is not taking that very large point, but the smaller point of restrictions on imports of food and essential materials from the point of view of the consumer, then I can say this, that the Food (Defence Plans) Department is to become the sole importer of all essential foodstuffs, and price orders will be made in respect of all such foodstuffs. Of course, it may take some time to give full effect to all the plans, but each commodity is being brought under control as quickly as possible, and the right hon. Gentleman will have seen already, in the newspapers, statements and orders which have been issued on that point. I think the House may rest assured that, by this method, the Government will do everything possible to see that adequate supplies are available at proper prices. If that is what the right hon. Gentleman has in mind, perhaps that reply will satisfy him for the moment, but there is another possibility. Perhaps he was thinking more of the quota regulations which exist in regard to a variety of commodities. That has nothing to do with the Bill, nor am I in a position to answer questions on the point. It is a matter for the Board of Trade and the Ministry of Agriculture, and perhaps the right hon. Gentleman will address his question to them. The Ministry of Supply are also giving effect to plans whereby purchases of essential raw materials would, in general, be subject, directly or indirectly, to their control. I think the right hon. Gentleman and the House may rest assured on this matter. While it is not exactly cognate to this Bill, which deals only with the administrative functions of the Import Duties Advisory Committee, I am glad to take this opportunity of answering what, I think, the right hon. Gentleman has in mind.

3.30 p.m.

I am obliged to the right hon. and gallant Gentleman for his answers, but I still feel that it was right to have raised the matters which I did raise on this Bill. It is an Import Duties (Emergency Provisions) Bill and is designed to assist the Government in freeing any imports which are essential to our national needs from any such embarrassments as duties and the like which might be said to interfere with their purchase. In my view, during a time when we are having to broadcast every night to farmers to increase production in this country because of a possible shortage of food, and when ships are beginning to be included in the category of submarine sinkings, as happened during the last War, it is vital that steps should be taken to extend the powers under the Bill, if extension of powers is necessary, in order to make the import of foodstuffs as of other raw materials as free as possible at the earliest possible moment. That is all the more essential, as we know from experience that with the inevitable increase of overhead charges in regard to food trades in the near future, the prices to the public must be affected. We want them kept to the lowest possible limit, and we ought not to have a wordy fight at any stage as to whether we are getting the food of the people at the very lowest possible rate. I wanted that point emphasised, and I think that on the whole the Financial Secretary to the Treasury has shown that the Government have the point in mind. I do not, therefore, propose to press it further.

With regard to his reference to the Import Duties Advisory Committee, I did not dwell upon that yesterday, and I do not propose to do so now, except to say that it would be interesting if, in the course of the direction of these matters by the Treasury, we find that we get favourable decisions to our importunities with far less difficulty and with far less protracted negotiations than is the case under the present procedure. It might well be that at the conclusion of the emergency period a resumption of that long-drawn-out and heavy procedure which has been in operation in connection with import duties may not be found so important as to be required.

3.33 p.m.

The right hon. and gallant Gentleman was courteous enough to reply to my point about the future fate of these three great gentlemen who have had the responsibility of advising the Treasury and guiding the House as to any new import duties or equally as to the removal of any restrictions. Incidentally, the personnel of the Committee has changed in the last few months. One of the members has now become Chairman of the British Broadcasting Corporation, and one is leaving his present office in a short time. I think we want to have it made clear, not merely to the House of Commons but to merchants and traders in general, what is behind this new procedure. I assume that it has been adopted in order to expedite, to quicken, in the light of our national danger, action that may be necessary to be taken by the Treasury, because the right hon. and gallant Gentleman the Financial Secretary went out of his way to pay tribute to this procedure and to those concerned. What I wish to get, and what the country want to understand, is whether it is more or less a change of policy or an alteration of bias. I see the President of the Board of Trade turns his head as though shocked, but I think we want guidance in the matter. Does it mean that whereas the genera] attitude of the Government certainly was that imports of manufactured goods at any rate were to be deprecated, now the machinery will be rather in the light of the need for commodities of various kinds, that, provided the import is not a luxury, if it can be brought into this country, it will be to the national gain? Are our merchants and business men to endeavour to make up the inevitable shortage in commodities, owing to the diversion of manufacturers to war industries at the present time? Will these new powers be used rather to modify the restrictions, or will they be used to increase them?

The German submarines have taken over their functions.

Yes; as my hon. Friend says, the German submarines will be busy in supporting the policy of Protection. In the light of war conditions, we assume that any goods which come in and are not luxuries, but are necessaries, are to the national advantage. I am all in favour of pursuing the policy initiated in the last War by Mr. McKenna. It may be advisable to restrict the importation of luxuries in order to save tonnage, but I think this is an opportunity, in the new dispensation of changing the method, for the Government to make clear what the policy of the Government is in departing from what has been the policy of the Government, to have an impartial inquiry before the House comes to a decision. Is it in order to make importation easier, or is it in order to make importation more difficult?

3.37 P.m.

There is one point that I would like to make. On account of the war many manufacturing industries in this country will have their consumption output curtailed, and, it may be, almost working short time very shortly. On the other hand, during the last 12 or 18 months, we have had an enormous influx of manufactured goods from all over the world, partly brought about by other countries losing, for instance, their Far Eastern market, and in other cases wanting to sell goods where they could get foreign exchange. The imports of manufactured goods that we have had during the last 18 months are far in excess of anything that has been wanted in this country, and often much to the detriment of our manufacturers. Therefore, I hope that when the Treasury are dealing with this Bill, when it becomes an Act, in the next few months, they will remember the British manufacturer and see that he is enabled fully to employ his workers.

3.38 p.m.

I am sure the House appreciates the action that has been taken by His Majesty's Government in suspending the activities of the Import Duties Advisory Committee and transferring them to the Treasury during the period of the present emergency, but may I ask my right hon. and gallant Friend the Financial Secretary to the Treasury whether, in the case of industries which wish to maintain their vitality and have had to give up a certain volume of export trade—which, he will recognise, is a very important consideration in these times—careful consideration will be given to any industry making representations to the Treasury in order to maintain our home market? I am sure the Financial Secretary would himself take care in the case of any industry which might find itself embarrassed by restrictions which might be imposed that a careful and sympathetic hearing would be given to its case by the Treasury. With the Import Duties Advisory Committee certain considerations were always carefully examined in the case of particular enterprises, and I hope that that generous consideration which we all acknowledge has been extended by the Import Duties Advisory Committee to industries in this country working in competition with industries abroad, will be kept in the mind of the Treasury in dealing with the administration of import duties in the future.

We recognise that the Government have had to take this important step, that we are in a time of emergency and cannot have prolonged negotiations, and that decisive action has to betaken by the Treasury hurriedly. At the same time, I am sure the Treasury will have regard to every consideration affecting the welfare and continued vigour of industrial enterprise in this country. I feel that before the House gives a Second Reading to this Bill we ought to unite in saying how deeply we appreciate the valuable work which has been done for the country since the Advisory Committee came into existence. It was largely due to the wisdom and foresight of my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister, and we acknowledge it as one of the great contributions that he has made to the economic development and vitality of the country in recent times. I hope that the distinguished gentlemen who have been responsible for the committee will feel that the House, the country, and those associated with industry are grateful for the services which they have performed. We hope that the Treasury, with the new powers given by this Bill, will follow the excellent example set by the Import Duties Advisory Committee.

3.42 p.m.

My reply to the points that have been raised is in effect to refer to the speech which I made yesterday, but I recognise that it is not possible in these days for everybody to be in the Chamber continuously. I then explained that the object of this Measure was to suspend the statutory functions of the Import Duties Advisory Committee and to place them in the Treasury's hands. But I was also specific in saying that all the other machinery provisions which have to be gone through now are maintained. They are not suspended. There are still the reference to Parliament of the Orders, and consultation with the appropriate Minister, which includes the President of the Board of Trade above all. That is the answer to the hon. Baronet the Member for South-West Bethnal Green (Sir P. Harris). Therefore, bearing in mind that in the legislation which we have been passing during the last few days we have given the President of the Board of Trade great powers on questions of both imports and exports, the hon. Baronet can rest assured that the considerations that he had in mind cannot, in point of fact, be overlooked by the Treasury and the Department which it has to consult. That is the answer also to the hon. Member for Exeter (Mr. A. C. Reed).The Board of Trade has to be consulted.

With regard to the importation of luxuries, the President of the Board of Trade has already dealt with them. He has published a long list of articles of that nature over which control of imports has been taken. The House may rest assured that the considerations which hon. Members have raised are already either in mind or are covered by the Bill. I would remind the hon. Baronet and the House of what I said yesterday, that the functions of the Import Duties Advisory Committee were to make recommendations in order to foster British trade—a most desirable objective at all times. In the circumstances of to-day, however, those statutory functions have to be suspended and the power vested in the Government, which alone can take decisions on these points because of the vital importance of considering the control of imports and the availability of foreign exchange. It is because we are in time of war that we have to suspend the functions of the Committee and the considerations which actuated the Committee in making recommendations, because unfortunately to-day very different considerations must prevail.

Question, "That the Bill be now read a Second time," put, and agreed to.

Bill read a Second time, and committed to a Committee of the Whole House.

Bill considered in Committee pursuant to the Order of the House of 5th September.

[Sir DENNIS HERBERT in the Chair.]

CLAUSE I (Powers exercisable on recommendation of Committee: exercise without recommendation, and extension.)

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Clause stand part of the Bill."

3.45 p.m.

Will it be possible under the Bill for an individual firm to make its approach to the Treasury? I appreciate that the right hon. and gallant Gentleman has stated that the duties of the Committee have been taken over by the Treasury, but in the past the Committee have not dealt very favourably with individual cases. That may be all right in peace-time, but in war-time an individual firm may be producing goods of importance for the service of the country. If individual firms can make applications, will the Financial Secretary see that a proper department is set up to deal with them?

3.46 p.m.

It is difficult on the spur of the moment to think of the kind of cases which the hon. Gentleman has in mind, but I can tell him that there is nothing to prevent individual firms making any representations. The representations which are made in the normal course of things will, naturally, be considered.

Question, "That the Clause stand part of the Bill," put, and agreed to.

Clauses 2 and 3 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Schedule agreed to.

Bill reported, without Amendment; read the Third time, and passed.

INCOME TAX PROCEDURE (EMERGENCY PROVISIONS) BILL.

Considered in Committee; reported, without Amendment; read the Third time, and passed.