Orders of the Day — Agricultural Marketing Acts.

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons am ar 26 Gorffennaf 1935.

Danfonwch hysbysiad imi am ddadleuon fel hyn

Photo of Mr Thomas Williams Mr Thomas Williams , Don Valley

I think the very modest speech of the Minister is comparable at first glance to the two modest Amendments on the Order Paper, but I am not sure that the Amendments are as modest as the right hon. Gentleman would have the House believe. In fact, I think these two Amendments are absolutely fundamental and involve fundamental changes in the bacon marketing scheme and the prospective development scheme. The second Amendment definitely concedes the power to the bacon boards to determine not only kinds, varieties, and grades of bacon which may be sold, but to determine the quantities of bacon of any description which may be sold. Previously the boards have had no power to deal with quantity, and it was only the passing of the 1933 Act which altered the situation with regard to quantity.

Although the House is very thinly occupied, I think those who are sufficiently interested to be present ought to know the full possibilities of these two Amendments. The Amendment to Proviso 38 (1, b) definitely grants a power to bacon boards to restrict the output of home produce. Previously they only had the power to determine kinds, qualities, and grades, so that if the second Amendment is carried, the first Amendment comes into existence, and as the home output expands, with decreasing imports, then every existing producer will be able to increase his output proportionately. On the face of it, the first Amendment seems fair, namely, that whatever expansion there may be should be allocated proportionately over the whole of the existing producers, but something deeper than that is involved. This power, once conceded to the bacon boards, will be able to hit at the quantity of bacon which in future years can be produced in this country, and this House ought to hesitate before it gives that power, not to a body which is in existence to serve a public purpose and need, but to the Bacon Marketing Board, which consists wholly of producers.

We are giving to people who are in business for the purpose of making a profit, and incidentally providing a service, the power to restrict the quantity of an article which forms a part of the daily diet of a very large number of people in this country, and I shall be interested to see what the attitude of the National Liberal party will be to this question, should there be any National Liberal Member in the House apart from the Home Secretary, or of the Liberals who are not National Liberals, or in fact of all those supporters of the free flow of economic courses and so forth. I think this power is a very important one. To grant, first of all, to the right hon. Gentleman the power to decrease the imports of bacon, and then to concede to a bacon board consisting wholly of producers, with no representatives of the consumers or the general public, the power to fix the quantity that shall be produced at home, is really to concede a power that ought to be given to no less a body than either a public institution or at least a public utility society, where conditions would definitely be laid down and obligations entered into.

I understand that there is ample justification for the bacon board seeking this power, for I gather that Mr. Marsh, of Messrs. Marsh and Baxter, who are the biggest people in the country in this trade, is chairman of the board. They have very powerful influence with the board, and if they can persuade the bacon board first, the Minister second, and the House third to give them this almighty power to restrict the output of home produce, I shall have nothing but admiration for their ability. This Amendment will mean, when connected up with the development scheme which we shall deal with later, that in future every pig or bacon producer in the country will have a guaranteed market, guaranteed prices, because this board will determine the output, which incidentally will determine the prices, and guaranteed perpetual profits, and no persons in future will be able to produce except those who are producing at the moment.

What the right hon. Gentleman meant when he suggested that we were not extending the power and that Parliament would always have the right to intervene, if it thought fit, if a scheme went beyond the point that was deemed wise, I do not understand. The words of this Amendment are perfectly clear. It is proposed to eliminate all the words of Section 38 (1, b), and to add a new paragraph (b): the quantity of bacon of any description which may be sold". Clearly that gives the power to the Bacon Marketing Board to determine how much bacon shall be sold in any given period.