Part of the debate – in the House of Commons am ar 15 Mehefin 1933.
The hon. Member for Aberdare (Mr. G. Hall) complained at the beginning of his speech of the method of introduction of the Bill on Second Reading, but if he will refer to the hon. Member for Bedwellty (Mr. C. Edwards),
Who sits beside him, he will know that I asked Whether or not the Opposition would care for me to make an opening statement in introducing it on Second Reading, and that I was informed that as it was very late at night or early in the morning, and as the Bill was agreed on all sides, it was unnecessary for me to say anything then. I hope, therefore, I shall be absolved from any desire to keep from the House anything that is contained in the Bill. Then the hon. Member said that bodies other than the Pharmaceutical Society had not been consulted. It is true that a large number of bodies and individuals were consulted, but I must admit that there were certain people Who were left out when consultations took place. We did, however, consult all the important bodies. The Pharmaceutical Society represents an overwhelming number of the chemists of this country, and the other associations are really insignificant in comparison
The hon. Member said that this Bill would increase the facilities for the purchase of poisons, but what poisons? Did he mean the purchase of very dangerous substances or substances which are not so dangerous and which are required in large volume or in bulk for agriculturists or horticulturists? That is the point. It is a question of the danger of the substances Which will be able to be sold under Part II of this Bill. The Bill will certainly increase the facilities for the purchase of certain dangerous substances, but the substances which will be placed into either Part I or Part II will be decided by the Poisons Board, and it is clear that that board, with all their experience, will not put really dangerous substances into Part IT, but will retain those for Part I, to be dealt with, made up, and sold only by experienced chemists. If the hon. Member will look at Clause 17 of the Bill, he will see these words in Sub-section (3):
In determining the distribution of poisons as between Part I and Part II of the said list, regard shall be had to the desirability"—
I emphasise the word"desirability"—
of restricting the said Part II to articles which are in common use, or likely to come into common use, for purposes other than the treatment of human ailments, and which it is reasonably necessary to include in the said Part II if the public are to have adequate facilities for obtaining them.
Sub-section (4) is also important:
The Secretary of State shall forthwith take into consideration the list submitted to him by the Poisons Board"—
that is, the list which will state what, in the opinion of the Poisons Board, should be included in Part I and what should be included in Part II—
and may by Order confirm it, with or without modifications, as he thinks proper.
If it is found that in practice Part II contains dangerous elements, the Secretary of State has power under Sub-section (5)
after consultation with or on the recommendation of the Poisons Board, by Order to amend or vary the said list as he thinks proper.
Surely there is plenty of safeguard in those provisions to prevent any really dangerous substances being sold by an unauthorised and unqualified man. If the hon. Member is not satisfied, I would ask him to turn to Clause 18, which contains the prohibitions and regulations. If he reads that Clause with care, I am sure that he will be satisfied that the regulations are sufficient to ensure that under Part II of the Bill the public health will not be endangered. If it is any consolation to the hon. Member to know it, I would point out that there are at present a group of dangerous substances, such as spirits of salts, etc., which can be sold by anyone, however undesirable he may he. That is under the present law. These substances may or may not be in Part II after this Bill becomes an Act, but, at any rate, the position is that under the existing law very dangerous substances can be sold by anybody, however undesirable. I am sorry to feel that this Bill is receiving opposition at the hands of a Member of the Opposition party—