May I ask the Secretary of State for Scotland to give us some further explanation as to this Amendment? I know that it is partially consequential on an Amendment we have already accepted from another place, but in the past the power to pay travelling expenses and certain allowances was given to the education authorities. That will now be extended to the new county councils. Under the power which was given to the education authorities previously by a Minute of the Department, they could either increase or decrease, as the case might be, those payments made to Members who suffered a loss of employment. They could also increase or decrease, as they thought fit, the amount of maintenance grants to those Members who were more than four or eight hours away from their homes. There was a second provision arising out of another Minute from the Department, which allowed not only payment of travelling expenses from the permanent place of residence, but also from the temporary place of residence. In the Amendment before us there are the words "ordinary place of residence." I am anxious to know whether the "ordinary place of residence" would allow of the new county councils paying on the same basis as the existing education authorities have been paying, namely, not only from the permanent place of residence but also from the temporary place of residence—a concession which was granted by the Education Department mainly, I think, owing to my own arguments and the case which I was able to submit to the Department at that time.

If the word "maximum" had not been in the Amendment, I understand that there would have been no objection, because we believe that certain of the new county councils will agree that the figures represented here will be paid. But we know that there are some miserable county councils—miserable in every respect—who, merely because the word "maximum" is inserted, may seek to pay nothing at all. If I can get an assurance on this point, it might possibly clear away the doubt in some of our minds. Speaking as a Member of this party, and, I believe, for my colleagues here, I say that we would prefer to see a definite figure fixed, unless we can have the assurance that county councils are not going to get out of their moral obligations merely because of some legal quibble arising out of this Amendment. Having had some experience in connection with this business, I can speak of some of the hardships in giving service when no provision has been made for working men being paid. I resent very much some of the innuendoes which have been thrown out in another place by one of the late Secretaries for Scotland, an individual we had to fight bitterly in the county of Fife, and in the town of Kirkcaldy. We resent very much some of the innuendoes thrown out by that Noble Lord in another place, and I only wish he had been here to face the accusation.