Orders of the Day — Contributory Pensions Bill.

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons am ar 15 Gorffennaf 1925.

Danfonwch hysbysiad imi am ddadleuon fel hyn

Photo of Mr John Bromley Mr John Bromley , Barrow-in-Furness

The Attorney-General said he hoped that we on these benches would be satisfied. I am afraid that that shows the standard of intelligence for which we are generally given credit by the opposite side. Surely hon. Members opposite must realise that large numbers of us who have had the administration of trade union funds are not caught quite so easily. The very form of the words which we are discussing proves clearly that the whole thing is a three card trick. It is the old dodge of political people to profess to be giving something to the working classes in this country, and then to take it away. The more this Measure is examined, the more the people of the country, whether we on these benches tell them or not, will realise by their own intelligence that they are being duped. The right hon. Gentleman appeared to suggest in his argument, not so much the mutuality which he claims for all insurance schemes, but that everyone was going to live to 65 to be in this position. May I remind him that a large number who have paid upon a mutual understanding will never receive the benefit for which they have paid, people who are sufficiently fortunate not to be in this great pool of unemployment. There are others who pass away happily from the toils of this great Christian land of ours before they reach that age, and their payments will go to the benefit of these people.

This is not only offering with one hand and taking away with the other, but it means forcing these men who have had no opportunity of preparing for old age into unemployment, when they may be fit for employment, on a very miserable amount of money indeed. It is taking away from them a proportion of that which they have paid, and scrapping them with an unlivable wage. This Measure would receive commendation from these benches if it were compelling the wage earner of 65 to go into comfortable retirement with a living retiring allowance. But it is not that. But it is to save these few paltry pounds, while they have given away within the last few weeks, millions to people who do not want it, to the detriment of these other people. It is something which the much abused trade unions would not do. We have benefits for which the men pay in addition to superannuation, men who can continue at work beyond our superannuation limit, and are entitled to sickness benefit and other benefits which are greater. As my hon. Friend the Member for West Nottingham (Mr. Hayday) has said, we are not so cruel—I know the right hon. Gentleman objected to the word—as to say that we can save a few shekles from a man by forcing him to receive an old age pension on which he cannot live, and that the other benefits which he should receive we are going to take from him. We would not stoop to that.

I would appeal to the right hon. Gentleman and those on the Front Bench to consider this and see if they are not rather riding for a fall. They suggest that we may tell the country. The country will know. Working people are not quite as ignorant or foolish as they used to be a few years ago. [HON. MEMBERS: "Hear, hear!"] The applause from the Government Benches may suggest that we can be caught napping sometimes, but while you may fool all the people some of the time, and some people all of the time, you cannot fool all the people all the time. In these circumstances, apart from the retribution that is coming, here is a contract entered into. Working people have paid on a mutual understanding of benefit, and here you profess to give a benefit by taking away a greater benefit. It is not in accordance with what we hear about British sense of fair play. I do not know whether the attendants keep it out of this Chamber, but it does not percolate here as much as I would like to see it. If it had not been for the benefits, unemployment benefit, sickness benefit and old age benefit, paid by the trade unions of this country, you would have had the whole thing about you years ago. As we have stood in the breach so long, and now the State itself is attempting in a very stinted manner to do something, do not let it be said that the most powerful Government for years has sunk to this position of giving wealth to the wealthy, and a few weeks later, when professing to give something to the class which we have the honour to represent—[HON. MEMBERS: "No!"]—it is true: we do represent them—[HON. MEMBERS: "No!"]